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    #81
    Originally posted by WTFH View Post
    There's a massive difference between removing a statue and "destroying history"
    Children learn their education, not from statues, but from books, teachers and museums.

    Unfortunately in these "offended" times, any statue to a slave trader must remain or those who consider the statue to be educational will be wailing about slippery slopes.
    I'm inclined to agree...IF the education system covered more in its history classes than WWII.

    I would like to hope that the curriculum is broader than when I was at school (I opted for geography GCSE instead of history because the syllabus felt too narrow) but I suspect it isn't. My meagre knowledge of history has been through my own reading after leaving school and I think that's sadly most people's experience.

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      #82
      Originally posted by WTFH View Post
      There's a massive difference between removing a statue and "destroying history"
      Children learn their education, not from statues, but from books, teachers and museums.

      Unfortunately in these "offended" times, any statue to a slave trader must remain or those who consider the statue to be educational will be wailing about slippery slopes.
      I disagree, I have no problem with people debating and voting about which statues should be removed. But when they are pulled down because a vocal and sometimes violent minority of people deem it's offensive, that's when I have an issue.

      Because those same people will start calling teachers or education institutions prejudiced if they don't teach the things they want taught and with the bias they prefer.

      Things change, I get it. But I don't think the loud mob should always hold sway over the quiet majority.

      Comment


        #83
        Originally posted by woohoo View Post
        I disagree, I have no problem with people debating and voting about which statues should be removed. But when they are pulled down because a vocal and sometimes violent minority of people deem it's offensive, that's when I have an issue.

        Because those same people will start calling teachers or education institutions prejudiced if they don't teach the things they want taught and with the bias they prefer.

        Things change, I get it. But I don't think the loud mob should always hold sway over the quiet majority.
        Totally. Churchill would be gone if they had their way so the fact they managed to pull the right one down using flawed logic does not mean it's the correct thing to do.
        'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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          #84
          Originally posted by woohoo View Post
          I disagree, I have no problem with people debating and voting about which statues should be removed. But when they are pulled down because a vocal and sometimes violent minority of people deem it's offensive, that's when I have an issue.

          Because those same people will start calling teachers or education institutions prejudiced if they don't teach the things they want taught and with the bias they prefer.

          Things change, I get it. But I don't think the loud mob should always hold sway over the quiet majority.

          Maybe we should instead put up statues of the slave suppliers in Bristol?

          Opinion | How to End the Slavery Blame-Game - The New York Times

          Exploration of the interior, home to the bulk of Africans sold into bondage at the height of the slave trade, came only during the colonial conquests, which is why Henry Morton Stanley’s pursuit of Dr. David Livingstone in 1871 made for such compelling press: he was going where no (white) man had gone before.
          How did slaves make it to these coastal forts? The historians John Thornton and Linda Heywood of Boston University estimate that 90 percent of those shipped to the New World were enslaved by Africans and then sold to European traders. The sad truth is that without complex business partnerships between African elites and European traders and commercial agents, the slave trade to the New World would have been impossible, at least on the scale it occurred.
          Or we could all decide it was a tulip period and we are glad it is behind us.

          Agree about democracy pulling down statues not mob rule.
          "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

          I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

          Comment


            #85
            Originally posted by vetran View Post
            Maybe we should instead put up statues of the slave suppliers in Bristol?

            Or we could all decide it was a tulip period and we are glad it is behind us.
            I don't think we should put up statues just to prove that slavery was a world wide thing and not something specific to white people.

            I think we should teach the truth of the past along with it's nuances and in context. Would love for kids to be taught critical and logical thinking, so at least they could challenge what they are being taught. Saying that as a kid at school I just wanted to do fun things and history was boring - so perhaps not my subject.

            Anyway, toppling statues bad, reasoned thought and actions good. That's where i stand.

            Comment


              #86
              Originally posted by woohoo View Post
              I don't think we should put up statues just to prove that slavery was a world wide thing and not something specific to white people.

              I think we should teach the truth of the past along with it's nuances and in context. Would love for kids to be taught critical and logical thinking, so at least they could challenge what they are being taught. Saying that as a kid at school I just wanted to do fun things and history was boring - so perhaps not my subject.

              Anyway, toppling statues bad, reasoned thought and actions good. That's where i stand.

              Sorry meant to be little sarcastic because the story currently being told is a lie by omission. It is in some areas being used to support a Marxist movement that most normal people regardless of colour would not recognise as acceptable.
              "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

              I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

              Comment


                #87
                Originally posted by vetran View Post
                Sorry meant to be little sarcastic because the story currently being told is a lie by omission. It is in some areas being used to support a Marxist movement that most normal people regardless of colour would not recognise as acceptable.
                Sorry just read the article. Surprised to see anything that reasonable and balanced in the NY Times.

                Comment


                  #88
                  Originally posted by woohoo View Post
                  I don't think we should put up statues just to prove that slavery was a world wide thing and not something specific to white people.

                  I think we should teach the truth of the past along with it's nuances and in context. Would love for kids to be taught critical and logical thinking, so at least they could challenge what they are being taught. Saying that as a kid at school I just wanted to do fun things and history was boring - so perhaps not my subject.

                  Anyway, toppling statues bad, reasoned thought and actions good. That's where i stand.
                  Immoveable, like a statue.
                  Old Greg - In search of acceptance since Mar 2007. Hoping each leap will be his last.

                  Comment


                    #89
                    Originally posted by Zigenare View Post
                    Immoveable, like a statue.
                    I was trying to think of joke that involved a crowd pulling me off - couldnt make it work.

                    Comment


                      #90
                      Originally posted by woohoo View Post
                      I disagree, I have no problem with people debating and voting about which statues should be removed. ...

                      Things change, I get it. But I don't think the loud mob should always hold sway over the quiet majority.
                      I'm happy to agree to voting and debating, but do you expect a mob will accept differing viewpoints if DC tells them they are not allowed to? Given the mob that were "protecting" statues turned out to be louder and more violent than others, what is the solution to that?

                      Who gets to debate & vote? Is it those who live in the area, or the whole country?
                      I'm perfect, in a very specific and limited way.
                      Hands... out infractions
                      Face... the music
                      Space... between the ears

                      Comment

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