COVID paranoia

[Excursion UK]

I didn't think it was arrogant. I thought it was obvious. Do you really need to be told why Sweden is more comparable from cultural and geographic perspectives to other Nordics as opposed to the UK? Surely you know that!

To compare, look at all factors. Add more factors if you like. And then say why you think the UK is a better comparator than other Nordics. And be honest with yourself. You just want to pick a poor performer.

I'd just like your explanation of the cultural differences between Scandinavians and the uk please.

I mean I have visited Norway, Sweden and Denmark and have never noticed anything culturally going on that would have any impact whatsoever. I mean, they don't greet you by bowing instead of shaking hands thus eliminating one possible routs of transmission

[WTFH]

No but most people (87.9%) do live in urbanised areas.

You're very quiet when it comes to New Zealand.

Why's that?

[Old Greg]

I'd just like your explanation of the cultural differences between Scandinavians and the uk please.

Firstly, I said Nordics, not Scandinavians. I hope you don't find my correcting your error arrogant.

Secondly, have a look at wiki:

Nordic countries - Wikipedia

Nordic countries have historically been one of the most socially progressive cultures in the world and culture is one of the main components of co-operation between the Nordic countries. The policies of the Nordic countries with respect to cultural life, mass media and religion have many shared values and features in common. However, some differences may be pointed out and for instance cultural institutions arising from historical circumstances. In both Denmark and Sweden, there are cultural institutions with roots in the traditions of the royal courts. In these countries, national institutions formed the foundation of cultural life at an early stage while in Norway cultural institutions began to form later.

Or another wiki page: Nordic model - Wikipedia

Or have a look at:

From 2013 until today, every time the World Happiness Report (WHR) has published its annual ranking of countries, the five Nordic countries – Finland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Iceland – have all been in the top ten, with Nordic countries occupying the top three spots in 2017, 2018, and 2019. Clearly, when it comes to the level of average life evaluations, the Nordic states are doing something right, but Nordic exceptionalism isn’t confined to citizen’s happiness. No matter whether we look at the state of democracy and political rights, lack of corruption, trust between citizens, felt safety, social cohesion, gender equality, equal distribution of incomes, Human Development Index, or many other global comparisons, one tends to find the Nordic countries in the global top spots.[1]

What exactly makes Nordic citizens so exceptionally satisfied with their lives? This is the question that this chapter aims to answer. Through reviewing the existing studies, theories, and data behind the World Happiness Report, we find that the most prominent explanations include factors related to the quality of institutions, such as reliable and extensive welfare benefits, low corruption, and well-functioning democracy and state institutions. Furthermore, Nordic citizens experience a high sense of autonomy and freedom, as well as high levels of social trust towards each other, which play an important role in determining life satisfaction. On the other hand, we show that a few popular explanations for Nordic happiness such as the small population and homogeneity of the Nordic countries, and a few counterarguments against Nordic happiness such as the cold weather and the suicide rates, actually don't seem to have much to do with Nordic happiness.


Most of the potential explanatory factors for Nordic happiness are highly correlated with each other and often also mutually reinforcing, making it hard to disentangle cause from effect. Therefore, focusing on just a single explanation may result in distorted interpretations. For example, does trust in institutions and other citizens create a fertile ground for building a welfare state model with extensive social benefits? Or does the welfare state model contribute to low crime and corruption, which leads citizens to trust each other more? Most likely, both directions of influence play a role, leading to a self-reinforcing feedback loop that produces high levels of trust in the Nordic region, and a high-functioning state and society model. We seek insight on this by taking a brief look at the history of the Nordic countries, which helps us to identify some practical takeaways about what other countries could learn from the Nordic region to ignite a positive feedback loop and enhance the happiness of their citizens. As Thomas Jefferson noted in 1809, "The care of human life and happiness and not their destruction is the first and only legitimate object of good government."[2]

It's not to say that the UK is culturally worse than the Nordics, but the Nordics share many characteristics that the UK doesn't.

[Excursion UK]

You're very quiet when it comes to New Zealand.

Why's that?

I believe they quarantined overseas arrivals from the word go. Probably something that should have happened here and elsewhere.

My whole problem is with the extended lockdown we are having here and the dithering of the govt over the scrapping of the totally arbitary 2 metre rule which is acting like a millstone round the neck of our economy.

[Excursion UK]

Firstly, I said Nordics, not Scandinavians. I hope you don't find my correcting your error arrogant.

Secondly, have a look at wiki:

Nordic countries - Wikipedia


Or another wiki page: Nordic model - Wikipedia

Or have a look at:


It's not to say that the UK is culturally worse than the Nordics, but the Nordics share many characteristics that the UK doesn't.

Don't split hairs, we all know we are talking about Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland.

Anyhow, I don't see what any of that has to do with catching a bug

[Old Greg]

Don't split hairs, we all know we are talking about Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland.

Anyhow, I don't see what any of that has to do with catching a bug

I was using correct terminology.

But just now you were asking me to justify why the UK has a different culture. Now that I've done that, are you now saying culture is irrelevant?

Do you not think that attitudes to the state and to rules are relevant? Do you not think that attitudes around social cohesion vs rugged individualism and the continuum between are relevant?

And can you not see that public behaviour within a national effort to control a pandemic is rather different from "catching a bug"?

Why don't you just admit that the reason you want to compare Sweden with the UK, rather than with the obviously comparable countries, because it suits your argument to compare Sweden with a poorly performing country? It's clear that that is what you're doing, and you're just making yourself look daft.

[Old Greg]

I believe they quarantined overseas arrivals from the word go. Probably something that should have happened here and elsewhere.

My whole problem is with the extended lockdown we are having here and the dithering of the govt over the scrapping of the totally arbitary 2 metre rule which is acting like a millstone round the neck of our economy.

But now you're bringing in social distancing. That's not lockdown.

[Excursion UK]

I was using correct terminology.

But just now you were asking me to justify why the UK has a different culture. Now that I've done that, are you now saying culture is irrelevant?

Do you not think that attitudes to the state and to rules are relevant? Do you not think that attitudes around social cohesion vs rugged individualism and the continuum between are relevant?

And can you not see that public behaviour within a national effort to control a pandemic is rather different from "catching a bug"?

Why don't you just admit that the reason you want to compare Sweden with the UK, rather than with the obviously comparable countries, because it suits your argument to compare Sweden with a poorly performing country? It's clear that that is what you're doing, and you're just making yourself look daft.

You have not justified "why the UK has a different culture".

So, scandi countries vs UK is a question of social cohesion vs rugged individualism??

Rubbish, if anything people in the UK have completely overdone sticking to the govt rules and guidelines so much so that there was concern in govt circles that people wouldn't willingly return to normal once the lockdown had been lifted. And look at all the voluntary support networks set up here and the Thursday night clapping. Rugged individualism eh?

Your arguments do not stack up.

[WTFH]

But now you're bringing in social distancing. That's not lockdown.

He's bought into a belief that it's all the same and that there's nothing the UK government could have done, or should have done better, and the UK's tracing process is the best in the world as we have been told ever since the government chose to reject the google/apple option.

[WTFH]

He's bought into a belief that it's all the same and that there's nothing the UK government could have done, or should have done better, and the UK's tracing process is the best in the world as we have been told ever since the government chose to reject the google/apple option.

Oops. 20 mins ago, "World Class" is being improved:

UK virus-tracing app switches to Google-Apple model - BBC News

Sorry, I was wrong.