Churchill - antisemitic racist or war hero?

[woohoo]

He was also a drunk.

And you are ugly but at least tomorrow he will be sober, dead sober.

[vetran]

vetran is like Trump - says moronic thing and then claims it was a “joke” or “sarcasm”

I correct people and point to valid sources for support.
I pointed out that they were men of their time that we needed desperately, I didn't think i needed to explain the cuddly joke.
Old Smeg suggested none of the war leaders cared about anti antisemitism and other NAZI ideals, I proved him wrong

Trump and a few posters here make stuff up.

[vetran]

He was also a drunk.

Well by modern standards its an illness and forgives many transgressions. You can't have it both ways.

[NotAllThere]

It seems people are coming to the realisation that people are not black or white, good men can do bad things, and its very difficult to paint a person as one or the other

Also, bad men can do good things. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an utter idiot and probably uses Twitter to "cancel" people who disagree with them.

He was also a drunk.

He had an amazing capacity for drink. But if he achieved what he did while drunk - it's probably good he wasn't sober.

[vetran]

And you are ugly but at least tomorrow he will be sober, dead sober.

and far more intelligent / richer than spooter

[vetran]

A man of his time who finally found something he was good at ( apart from writing ) courtesy of WW2.

Arguably that was in the Boer war

The Boer War - The International Churchill Society

In this last youthful military adventure, Churchill set off and arrived in Cape Town late on 30 October 1899. He was famously captured only two weeks later by the Boers, when the armoured train on which he was travelling in Boer-occupied territory was ambushed and derailed. The following month, having spent his twenty-fifth birthday imprisoned, Churchill made a dramatic escape by climbing over a wall, riding a freight train, hiding in a coal mine and eventually boarding a train into Portuguese East Africa.

[Old Greg]

No it wasn't. Lets look at some expert opinion:


Churchill and the Holocaust: The Possible and Impossible - The International Churchill Society








Roosevelt
"Arsenal of Democracy" Speech, Franklin Roosevelt, 29 December 1940

To be fair to Churchill, he was something of an outlier in the Conservative Party (perhaps because he had crossed the floor) in seeing the big picture threat the civilization that the Nazis posed. But that's not why the Allies went to war (and of course Churchill was not PM in 1939).

[vetran]

To be fair to Churchill, he was something of an outlier in the Conservative Party (perhaps because he had crossed the floor) in seeing the big picture threat the civilization that the Nazis posed. But that's not why the Allies went to war (and of course Churchill was not PM in 1939).

After years of appeasement (arguably so we could re-arm) the British Government drew a line in the sand over Poland with a mutual treaty, we had no real military need to do that. Germany invaded Poland we upheld our part of the treaty.

The suggestion was that the war leaders had not factored NAZI crimes or aggression into their reason for war, they were just stopping German expansion that is clearly untrue.

Neville Chamberlain - WW2, Hitler & Appeasement - Biography

Rather than challenge acts of aggression by Nazi Germany, Chamberlain sought ways to pacify Hitler. Chamberlain signed the Munich Pact in 1938, which gave parts of Czechoslovakia to Germany. Some have speculated that his desire to keep the peace was somewhat driven by Britain being outmatched by Germany's military at the time.
Chamberlain seemed to have underestimated Hitler's ambitions. In March 1939, Hitler violated the Munich Pact by invading Czechoslovakia. Britain and France agreed to protect Poland later that month. After Hitler's forces entered Poland that September, Chamberlain officially declared war on Germany; this declaration came shortly after the invasion, but his slight delay in making this announcement negatively impacted Chamberlain's popularity.

[scooterscot]

“Of all the small nations of this earth, perhaps only the ancient Greeks surpass the Scots in their contribution to mankind.”

― Winston Churchill

[Old Greg]

After years of appeasement (arguably so we could re-arm) the British Government drew a line in the sand over Poland with a mutual treaty, we had no real military need to do that. Germany invaded Poland we upheld our part of the treaty.

The suggestion was that the war leaders had not factored NAZI crimes or aggression into their reason for war, they were just stopping German expansion that is clearly untrue.

Neville Chamberlain - WW2, Hitler & Appeasement - Biography

Nothing in your quotation backs up your assertion about Nazi crimes. Aggression is clearly covered by expansion 1

I happen to think that history's assessment of Chamberlain as an appeaser is harsh. The prevailing thinking at the time seriously overestimated the impact of aerial bombing of civilian population centres. And Chamberlain used the time bought to good effect by rearming.