Decriminalisation of sex workers

[Jolie]

Did I say that?

Yes you did!

but, it should be pointed out that it is generally still the case that it is the male of the species that is procuring this "service" and perpetuating the exploitation of those less able.

And again:

but your experience does not detract from the fact that the majority of sex work is undertaken by those least able to take care of themselves via any other means.

So you know the sex industry well? You know the majority of the girls? You know they do this because they are least able to take care of themselves? Wow!

Sex work is not work; it is the exploitation of women for the gratification of men.

Well I have already explained why this is not the case. If you are referring to street prostitution, then that is largely run by criminals, people traffickers and drug dealers, so I would not say this is work either, this is women being made to work against their will, which is a whole different subject.

And yes, "sending^* one's wife into a local factory production line for 9 hours a day, for barely minimum wage" could be seen as exploitation if the partner is not also contributing to the domestic pot.

I rest my case!

[wattaj]

*sips coffee*

Ok...

Yes you did!

No, I did not say that "sex workers are dumb"; that was your (mis)interpretation of my position that sex workers are exploited and, generally, less / least able to make other choices.

This really says more about your position on this issue than it does about mine.

So you know the sex industry well? You know the majority of the girls? You know they do this because they are least able to take care of themselves? Wow!

Yes. Perhaps not sufficiently well in your opinion, but well enough to make my position that sex work is exploitative. I have already stated that my experience is third-hand: my close relative was a family support worker in Aberdeen. Many of her clients fell into prostitution for a variety of reasons; all around poor mental health, domestic abuse, and /or drug addiction. Further, I lived in the Netherlands for over two years and count a number of Dutch health and social care workers as my friends. All is not so rosy in the touristy flesh-pots of Amsterdam as one might hope.

So, as I say, well enough.

I make no judgement as to your experience, but note that your position, for whatever reason, is strongly held.

Well I have already explained why this is not the case. If you are referring to street prostitution, then that is largely run by criminals, people traffickers and drug dealers, so I would not say this is work either, this is women being made to work against their will, which is a whole different subject.

I make no distinction: sex work is the exploitation of women for the gratification of morally dysfunctional men.

I rest my case!

And what a case it was; a string bag of dirty washing and soiled pants. Bravo.

[ladymuck]

It's takes a particular attitude to take a comment about "less able" to mean "dumb".

There are many people who for one reason or another have fewer opportunities and for whom prostitution is a means to put food on the table and keep a roof over their heads.

No-one is saying this situation applies to all people, just rather a lot of them, and to assume that everything is hunky dory is somewhat deluded.

[BrilloPad]

I wonder what Putin thinks?

[xoggoth]

my close relative was a family support worker in Aberdeen. Many of her clients fell into prostitution for a variety of reasons; all around poor mental health, domestic abuse, and /or drug addiction

Not suggesting those are not significant problems but, since she was a support worker, it would only be women like that she was likely to be aware of. Are they necessarily representative of those in the whole sector?

There's a different view here:

Understanding Sex Work in an Open Society - Open Society Foundations

[xoggoth]

A quick Google shows a big divide on this but the more commonly expressed view by those with experience is that making it illegal will not help the exploited, the poor, the drug addicts etc, but will just push the activities underground and the criminal gangs will take over entirely. Makes even less sense than prohibition.

[NotAllThere]

So you know the sex industry well? You know the majority of the girls?

Do you?

It's takes a particular attitude to take a comment about "less able" to mean "dumb".

It does. Jolie is begin to sound like one of those young lefties who think opposition to prostitution is anti-feminist.

I live in a country where prostitution is legal. It's still not safe and there's a lot of criminal involvement and activity. Many foreign women are, by virtue of Schengen, rotated every three months into a new country. Their pimps have their passports. For those who have more choice in the matter, many still feel trapped as the alternative is poverty. Source: I know a doctor who during her free time tries to help and support women in prostitution - sexual health advice, as well as counselling and should they want to, support in getting out.

Decriminalisation of prostitution will make prostitution will less unsafe and perhaps not quite so violent and controlling. Therefore it should be done. At least in the UK, the semi-legal trafficking won't be such an issue.

[wattaj]

Not suggesting those are not significant problems but, since she was a support worker, it would only be women like that she was likely to be aware of. Are they necessarily representative of those in the whole sector?

There's a different view here:

Understanding Sex Work in an Open Society - Open Society Foundations

I note, with some interest, that you have chosen to ignore the contributions from Dutch health and social care workers. But, yes, you are correct, one half of this third-hand experience is from a narrowly selected population. I recognise this, but that does not change my view.

I shall leave you to Google around in order to support the other side of this debate: that women can continue to be allowed to be exploited by men.

I'm not sure that this is the right side of history that one should be arguing for TBH, but each to their own.

[LondonManc]

Sex work is NOT work; it is exploitation of women that perpetuated by a patriarchal society.

The woke Left will never admit this, but they abdicated their legitimacy years ago.

Just asked the enemy; sex is an effort, ergo work. So you're wrong.

[Mordac]

Just asked the enemy; sex is an effort, ergo work. So you're wrong.

I'm sure it's an effort with you...