When I were a lad...

[BritishLad88]

I LOVE agile and scrum. There is so much time wasted with all those mostly useless meetings (sprint planning, daily stand ups, sprint review, and so on) that simple projects go on and on and on and we all know that delays = contract extensions.

Agile and scrum are paying my mortgage.

+1

don't know about you guys but those useless meetings makes my time appear to go faster for some reason especially if you're actively participating in them otherwise you'll just fall asleep.

Personlly I prefer these useless meetings than working in a waterfall like project in particular the times when you have nothing to not much to do:
in those downtime I end up sitting in my desk staring at my PC screen all day twidling my thumbs, napping, extended breakfast, lunch, toilet & coffee tea breaks, gossiping with fellow colleagues...

At least in agile environment I have those useless meetings to waste my time upon and actually makes me feel i'm actually working .

[GhostofTarbera]

State of the Market

+1

don't know about you guys but those useless meetings makes my time appear to go faster for some reason especially if you're actively participating in them otherwise you'll just fall asleep.

Personlly I prefer these useless meetings than working in a waterfall like project in particular the times when you have nothing to not much to do:
in those downtime I end up sitting in my desk staring at my PC screen all day twidling my thumbs, napping, extended breakfast, lunch, toilet & coffee tea breaks, gossiping with fellow colleagues...

At least in agile environment I have those useless meetings to waste my time upon and actually makes me feel i'm actually working .

How many lines of code do you average a week?

Before agile I did about 10000 back in the day

Now as a PM I see about 10 from an entire team


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[BritishLad88]

Hard to define exactly as lots of other factors would affect the stats and those stats are not that easily measure but assuming you mean in a general ...

How many lines of code do you average a week?

Before agile I did about 10000 back in the day

depends on whether work is available or not to be honest. current gig i'm 1 of only 2 coders in the team. We're not doing agile here. When we have work to do, we write about .. yeah 10000 per week between us 2.

Now as a PM I see about 10 from an entire team

My old place we did Agile, we had 8 - 9 coders in the team and yes, we were writing about 10 or 20 lines of code for the entire week. There were times, some of us were not coding at all. We were watching other people code helping each other out (we call it 'Pair Programming'). At other times, as a group we code together. But Agile practictioners will say that these kind of techniques (Pair Programming, Group Programming) are actually common.

So PMs coming to the Agile world as newbie will obviously see these kind of things as weird and thinking not very productive. But in fact, it is completely acceptable practices. Non Agile people just don't understand that Agile involves collaboration, cooperation, & communication. Old school PMs think people in Agile are not doing much but in fact is what I call the 3Cs that help the team/business being productive.

Whereas, I'm sure non Agile PMs are so used to seeing IT coders sitting at their desk with their headphones plugged in, banging on their keyboards outputing thousands lines of code thinking they're super productive.

[BritishLad88]

oh and another point to add to my above post which i don't think anyone has mentioned so far regarding this agile vs non-agile debate...

since the example of software development being used i'll continue that theme.
non coders here probably won't have a clue what i'm about to say following but the coders here will likely get what i'm trying to say.

in the pre agile era (lets say 10 or 15 years ago), technologies were not that advanced as today, social media weren't a thing, the industry was so isolated and therefore coders had a habbit of what we call these days "re-inventing the wheel" to any given problem they face. So when they being presented with a problem, their solution is to 'code' it out from scratch completely. And that takes time. After all, building software is not an easy process.

But times have moved on & in this modern era, (where agile is pretty much everywhere nowadays except some banks maybe) the way we code software is different than before. In our coding industry today, we have a thing called "Code Reuse" meaning reuse code that's being already written by someone else. So rather than writing out code, we just likely 'copy & paste code' from internet. With the internet being it is today and plenty of social media platforms it means it is lot easier to share code with other people.

So you can imagine coders today hardly write a lot code but rather take code from other people and reuse them. Lot faster. And solves business problems quicker.

So i just think it is not as easy & not fair to just do comparisons on saying Pre agile we code 10000 lines of code & in Agile coders only write 10 lines hinting they're not productive, not as good etc...

[AndrewK]

Ok am not planning to defend all this pseudo Agile bulltulip, but common, since when lines of code is a good measure of progress. Team of bobs will produce you 100k lines garbage with copy-paste driven development. Also, there are different stages of the project. In last, most challenging phase it is more about tuning system.
P.S.
Last week I deleted 1000 lines, so does that would imply I went backwards?

[BR14]

i suppose

[Paralytic]

How many lines of code do you average a week?

Before agile I did about 10000 back in the day

Now as a PM I see about 10 from an entire team

I think you've uncovered the issue.

If you're a PM managing a team, they're not doing agile.

And I'm sure you know the prhase that goes something like "Apologies this codebase is so large. We didn't have time to make it smaller"

Those using LOC as a measure of productivity are well and truly stuck in the 80s/90s.

[oliverson]

***** WTF IS GOING ON? *****

I came to this thread for a quick catch-up on the State of the Market. That's the name of the ******* thread after all. And all I find is talk about the piece of tulip that is agile. Can we get the thread back on track please, or just shut the ****er down?

[edison]

Market has been ballistic for me since just before xmas after an exceedingly quiet Oct/Nov. I started a new consulting gig at beginning of Jan and had calls for five interim IT director roles since I started.

There definitely seems to be a lot of movement in the market for very senior roles, several friends have also confirmed this. Would imply that there should be a wave of hiring starting in the next 3 months.

I'm also recruiting 25 permies at my new client so it's not all doom and gloom.

[Paralytic]

I'm also recruiting 25 permies at my new client so it's not all doom and gloom.

Are you ready for a your PM inbox to be filled?