If the snowflakes don't like it

[Lockhouse]

I think they have a point rejecting British imperialism, it is quite a shameful business.

I disagree - in my opinion it was a product of it's time so there is no modern moral equivalent. I feel no need to apologise or feel guilty about it. Whether it was right or wrong by modern standards can be argued, but any moral outrage (i.e. words like shameful) is misplaced.

[Jog On]

I disagree - in my opinion it was a product of it's time so there is no modern moral equivalent. I feel no need to apologise or feel guilty about it. Whether it was right or wrong by modern standards can be argued, but any moral outrage (i.e. words like shameful) is misplaced.

I think it's what nations just did if they could - Greeks, Romans, Mongols, Vikings. IMO it's still happening now eg. Israel pushing into Palestine and Syrian Golan Heights and countries overthrowing governments replacing them with puppet leaders while their corporations plunder natural resources, client states and proxy wars.

I do feel bad about what happened to the nations we colonized, also native Americans and slavery - they have a right to be angry and should IMO get some form of reparations.

It's a tricky one and I can't help think that it's getting abused by the younger generation to throw tantrums, get attention and try and impose some form of free ride for themselves.

[Lockhouse]

Israel pushing into Palestine and Syrian Golan Heights

Let's just say we have diametrically opposing opinions and leave it there.

It's a tricky one and I can't help think that it's getting abused by the younger generation to throw tantrums, get attention and try and impose some form of free ride for themselves.

I agree with that bit.

[NigelJK]

We're still the only Nation to have forged a global empire based on commerce not bloodshed. It's very difficult later to correct that wrong, but you can correct dodgy commercial practices (e.g. Slavery) later. The point about attention seeking was very evident in the 'interview' last night.

[meridian]

I think it's what nations just did if they could - Greeks, Romans, Mongols, Vikings. IMO it's still happening now eg. Israel pushing into Palestine and Syrian Golan Heights and countries overthrowing governments replacing them with puppet leaders while their corporations plunder natural resources, client states and proxy wars.

I do feel bad about what happened to the nations we colonized, also native Americans and slavery - they have a right to be angry and should IMO get some form of reparations.

It's a tricky one and I can't help think that it's getting abused by the younger generation to throw tantrums, get attention and try and impose some form of free ride for themselves.

Or, alternatively, the younger generation are finding their voice and the older generation are finding some of what they say uncomfortable.

Young ‘uns didn’t invent retrospectives, it’s been going on since at least the swinging sixties and “peace and free love” and probably long before that.

[vetran]

I think it's what nations just did if they could - Greeks, Romans, Mongols, Vikings. IMO it's still happening now eg. Israel pushing into Palestine and Syrian Golan Heights and countries overthrowing governments replacing them with puppet leaders while their corporations plunder natural resources, client states and proxy wars.

I do feel bad about what happened to the nations we colonized, also native Americans and slavery - they have a right to be angry and should IMO get some form of reparations.

It's a tricky one and I can't help think that it's getting abused by the younger generation to throw tantrums, get attention and try and impose some form of free ride for themselves.

Lets give them Portugal, apparently they are to blame for slaves initially being sold to Europeans in Africa. Do we need to ask for compensation for the Cornish people and British sailors captured by Barbary Pirates?

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/23/opinion/23gates.html

Slaves were the main export of the kingdom of Kongo; the Asante Empire in Ghana exported slaves and used the profits to import gold. Queen Njinga, the brilliant 17th-century monarch of the Mbundu, waged wars of resistance against the Portuguese but also conquered polities as far as 500 miles inland and sold her captives to the Portuguese. When Njinga converted to Christianity, she sold African traditional religious leaders into slavery, claiming they had violated her new Christian precepts.

For centuries, Europeans in Africa kept close to their military and trading posts on the coast. Exploration of the interior, home to the bulk of Africans sold into bondage at the height of the slave trade, came only during the colonial conquests, which is why Henry Morton Stanley’s pursuit of Dr. David Livingstone in 1871 made for such compelling press: he was going where no (white) man had gone before.

How did slaves make it to these coastal forts? The historians John Thornton and Linda Heywood of Boston University estimate that 90 percent of those shipped to the New World were enslaved by Africans and then sold to European traders. The sad truth is that without complex business partnerships between African elites and European traders and commercial agents, the slave trade to the New World would have been impossible, at least on the scale it occurred.

BBC - History - British History in depth: British Slaves on the Barbary Coast

Not content with attacking ships and sailors, the corsairs also sometimes raided coastal settlements, generally running their craft onto unguarded beaches, and creeping up on villages in the dark to snatch their victims and retreat before the alarm could be sounded.

Empire is wrong now, but back then everyone was doing it. If we hadn't taken part you would be typing German, French or Spanish now, if of course any of us existed the world would be a very different place. I have no guilt about that.

[NotAllThere]

I disagree - in my opinion it was a product of it's time so there is no modern moral equivalent. I feel no need to apologise or feel guilty about it. Whether it was right or wrong by modern standards can be argued, but any moral outrage (i.e. words like shameful) is misplaced.

British imperialism was certainly not as bad as what the Dutch, French and Belgians got up to. The British moderated their exploitation with attempts to bring the benefits of white-man's civilisation to the savage heathens. Belgian colonies were slave states.

[Jog On]

Empire is wrong now, but back then everyone was doing it. If we hadn't taken part you would be typing German, French or Spanish now, if of course any of us existed the world would be a very different place. I have no guilt about that.

How come we didn't end up speaking French after 1066?

[LondonManc]

The lessons and attitudes of the past should be presented as a celebration of the evolution of equality and to prevent anyone from slipping back towards darker times. Kipling's actions and writings were not offensive at the time - who's to say what of today's life people will look back in 100 years from now and find offense with?

[Jog On]

British imperialism was certainly not as bad as what the Dutch, French and Belgians got up to. The British moderated their exploitation with attempts to bring the benefits of white-man's civilisation to the savage heathens. Belgian colonies were slave states.

That's exactly what the Kipling poem (not "If" but "White man's burden") that started this thread was endorsing.

What gets me about all this is that if Clinton had won in 2016 none of this would be a thing - or anything like as much of a thing it is.