Faith in the country again!

[John Galt]

well thats the point though - it probably COULD be put into practise....a utopian society.....not in todays world though, but sometime in the future.

Communism today is associated with evil - with violations of human rights, with vile dictators, with all manor of evil. But that doesn't mean that is what communism is.

OK, think carefully about this Sally - the ideal of communism will never work except in incredibly small controlled environments such as Kibbutzim. The reality of communism on a large scale is that it is evil. Human nature will never allow all mankind to live together in peace and harmony because we all secretly believe that we are better than the person next to us

[ratewhore]

The Braggster was at Glastonbury last year. I enjoyed his set mainly because he was playing his older stuff like milkman of human kindness. His later stuff is becoming mind-numbingly boring so I won't bother going to see the current tour.

Oh, and his politics go in one ear and out the other...

[Lucy]

Well then its evil yes.

But what if they were?

On what basis would anyone 'give up' their freedom ?

(minus the BDSM devotees of course)

[SallyAnne]

On what basis would anyone 'give up' their freedom ?

(minus the BDSM devotees of course)

People give up their freedoms all the time!!

Marriage, ID cards, jobs, mortgages, not voting, prison, having children...there are varying degrees obviously.

[Lucy]

People give up their freedoms all the time!!

Marriage, ID cards, jobs, mortgages, not voting, prison, having children...there are varying degrees obviously.

That isn't what I meant.

(Since when is going to prison a choice ?)

This might help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_%28political%29

[SallyAnne]

OK, think carefully about this Sally - the ideal of communism will never work except in incredibly small controlled environments such as Kibbutzim. The reality of communism on a large scale is that it is evil. Human nature will never allow all mankind to live together in peace and harmony because we all secretly believe that we are better than the person next to us

I never said anything about scale.
Kibbutz is a great example - people who came together and chose to give up some of their "freedoms" for the greater good. A choice. And it worked for them. Ok it may be debatable whether it was a real choice, more one of necessity...but thats a thin line.

[SallyAnne]

That isn't what I meant.

(Since when is going to prison a choice ?)

This might help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_%28political%29

No, but committing the crime is a choice isn't it?

And they're choosing to possibly give up their freedom for a return which they see as a more beneficial option.

[SallyAnne]

That isn't what I meant.

(Since when is going to prison a choice ?)

This might help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_%28political%29

And if you're talking about political freedom...well I'd like to know how many people in this country alone would even care if they lost that right!

[Lucy]

No, but committing the crime is a choice isn't it?

And they're choosing to possibly give up their freedom for a return which they see as a more beneficial option.

I doubt that anyone who commits a crime, seriously believes they will get caught.

Going to prison is not a choice.

[Lucy]

And if you're talking about political freedom...well I'd like to know how many people in this country alone would even care if they lost that right!

*Lucy rips out own hair*