November Budget - Stop Public sector IR35 rules coming into the Private sector

[mattfx]

Uhm, speak for yourself. I do exactly those things - full, certified partner status with my primary technology and I cold call contacts all the time. No, I don't phone random businesses - and neither do most consultancies.

Kudos. I network too, I think you have to now to survive or be ahead of the game.

When I made those comments they were mass generalisations and I believe for every one of us that do act like a professional services company, that there are at least two who don't. I am more than happy to be wrong (and probably am)

[MrMarkyMark]

Kudos. I network too, I think you have to now to survive or be ahead of the game.

When I made those comments they were mass generalisations and I believe for every one of us that do act like a professional services company, that there are at least two who don't. I am more than happy to be wrong (and probably am)

A lot of us on here try.

The amount that don't would actually be a lot larger than you think.
Its funny working for the same client co and being treated a lot differently to other contractors.

A lot depends on how you set your stall out at the beginning and how you manage the relationship after that.

Have been called everything from a "contractor for life" to a "mercenary" by clients in the past, have always been quite happy they have chosen to make the distinction

[bobspud]

The root of the problem is dire situation with budget deficit and they want to find soft targets for tax increases.

and this is where clarity of thought falls flat...

Under the old system if I had a profit of £100000 at the end of the year I would set aside 20% and apportion a dividend that would accrue roughly 2k in capital gains tax each I will have also collected and passed on probably 26k in VAT so my fair share of taxes was

20k corporation tax
26k VAT
4k personal taxes

And the rest of the £80k is free to flow into the rest of society and a very large proportion will be paid to the government in fuel duty, Beer and spirits and then VAT on the rest...

So now they grab what they think is more tax at source but I only have 46% left to spend in society...

So wine sales are down ( lost vat and excise )
Restaurants are replaced with more home cooking... (more lost vat)
I buy a smaller car so now my petrol receipts are far smaller (more less fuel duty )

And next year Spreadsh!t Phil will be left scratching his head at why he seems to have LESS tax take. While the economy loses GDP

The very last place tax should be taken is at the source.

[eek]

26k VAT

Once again please, please don't quote or include VAT when showing how much tax we pay..

VAT is regarded by HMRC as cost neutral for most B2B businesses as what we pay in VAT would otherwise have been paid by our customer (yes the public sector and banking is slightly different but only banking can't claim the money back)..

[bobspud]

Once again please, please don't quote or include VAT when showing how much tax we pay..

VAT is regarded by HMRC as cost neutral for most B2B businesses as what we pay in VAT would otherwise have been paid by our customer (yes the public sector and banking is slightly different but only banking can't claim the money back)..

But its obviously not a zero sum game as otherwise they would not need to collect it.

[AtW]

But its obviously not a zero sum game as otherwise they would not need to collect it.

It's zero some game between two VATable businesses, think about it for a moment - if you are big enough to collect it, then whoever can afford your services will have to be big enough to pay you - VAT registered.

[AtW]

and this is where clarity of thought falls flat...

Under the old system if I had a profit of £100000 at the end of the year I would set aside 20% and apportion a dividend that would accrue roughly 2k in capital gains tax each I will have also collected and passed on probably 26k in VAT so my fair share of taxes was

20k corporation tax
26k VAT
4k personal taxes

They'll get more tax if you are forced to be permie: particularly if you are being paid between £100-125k.

Also, and that's overriding concern, they in theory want to reduce corp tax/dividend tax rates/CGT to attract investment, but they can't do it if it costs them in revenue from people who they don't intend to benefit from it

[bobspud]

They'll get more tax if you are forced to be permie: particularly if you are being paid between £100-125k.

Also, and that's overriding concern, they in theory want to reduce corp tax/dividend tax rates/CGT to attract investment, but they can't do it if it costs them in revenue from people who they don't intend to benefit from it

And thats why I am saying that the clarity of thought is broken.

Think about your shiny nice car for a minute. That car was VAT qualifying so leaving you with enough cash in your pockets to be stupid earned them 20% of the sticker price in one afternoon. Then they got some insurance tax and it drinks like me so every few days you need to fill it up oh and theres £1200 in tyres that you will need to buy every few thousand miles lets take the 20% vat for those too...

all of that behaviour drives other businesses that report a profit and pay more taxes...

Compare that with handing over an additional £30k in direct tax only to see it vanish into an offshore account because HMRC needed to pay their landlords for their leaseback of their offices...

[AtW]

Think about your shiny nice car for a minute. That car was VAT qualifying so leaving you with enough cash in your pockets to be stupid earned them 20% of the sticker price in one afternoon.

New car sales are collapsing, even before big price increases due to devaluation of sterling.

[bobspud]

New car sales are collapsing, even before big price increases due to devaluation of sterling.

I didn't talk about new cars. I pointed out how you spent money that was left in your pocket. But seeing as you want to go there:

Now that it costs 35% to pop a deposit out of the company to lease a new toy, How many contractors are going to do that? The government is just so completely broken they cannot see the joined up effects of their short sightedness.