November Budget - Stop Public sector IR35 rules coming into the Private sector

[bobspud]

Who decides who is a professional contractor and who is an amateur? Maybe when HMRC defines that we can move forward.

The thing is that HMRC believe EVERYONE is an amateur.

I saw an article this morning saying that in the budget small print are new rules allowing HMRC to take what money they want when they want it.

It's not them that is deciding...

Its you.
Do you know your subject area?
Can you call the next wave of ideas and tech?
Can you articulate the good from the fad and tell the non technical clients?
Do you train yourself and invest in new equipment and tools to ride the wave of change?

This is what the professional looks like.

Compare that with:
Turning up wearing clean (enough) clothes is a goal...
I don't really do office politics I just sit in my chair and do whatever the client wants...
Im off to play footy/pub/gym at 5 and that will be the last I think about work
Hope my agent pays me on time

One of these will be heading to an umbrella company soon...

[BrilloPad]

Still agree with you. The market should / will fragment into:

1) professional contractors, delivering services, taking risks (getting shafted and being paid late) without hiding behind pseudo employment protections.

2) Permietractors who will go on the books or use umbrellas.

Also please don’t just blame the agencies, look at the clients for using the tax and employment regime as a subsidy for their workforce.

I repeat, professional contractors should see 2018/9 as an opportunity.

Who decides who is a professional contractor and who is an amateur? Maybe when HMRC defines that we can move forward.

The thing is that HMRC believe EVERYONE is an amateur.

I saw an article this morning saying that in the budget small print are new rules allowing HMRC to take what money they want when they want it.

[bobspud]

Still agree with you. The market should / will fragment into:

1) professional contractors, delivering services, taking risks (getting shafted and being paid late) without hiding behind pseudo employment protections.

2) Permietractors who will go on the books or use umbrellas.

Also please don’t just blame the agencies, look at the clients for using the tax and employment regime as a subsidy for their workforce.

I repeat, professional contractors should see 2018/9 as an opportunity.

I absolutely agree with this but we have a bit of a problem.

The Professional IT guys need a new animal to help them. We can't use traditional agencies any more because they have more or less ruined the contractor's USP by telling the client that they supply staff that are contingent and so 550 a day is a going rate for an X and so on. (and the tax system is subsidising this)

The actual true rate for someone that is on 550 should really be around £7-900+ this covers full and proper taxation and allows for enough money to save for bench time and pay for expenses. Oh and a profit at the end.

I think we need a new model that focuses on front end sales as a service with a salesmen that can sell a solution and contractors paying for their sales function as a percentage of the sale and probably more bids work.

Contractors are going to need to get together as co-operatives to cover the work and much more business thinking will be needed.

This rolls back to the point you made about fragmentation of the market.

[Andy Hallett]

All great fun, but totally wrong.

We should be emphasising that we are suppliers of knowledge and skills, operating in the exact same way as any other business and engaged on a B2B basis, making all this tulip about "we're not employees" totally unnecessary. Even Andy Hallett agreed with me on that point.

Sadly it's the agencies that have got us into this position by selling us as temporary workers under their control. That is what needs to be broken.

Still agree with you. The market should / will fragment into:

1) professional contractors, delivering services, taking risks (getting shafted and being paid late) without hiding behind pseudo employment protections.

2) Permietractors who will go on the books or use umbrellas.

Also please don’t just blame the agencies, look at the clients for using the tax and employment regime as a subsidy for their workforce.

I repeat, professional contractors should see 2018/9 as an opportunity.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Funny how we're all happy we dodged the IR35 bomb, so came away happy, when in reality we got more dividend tax. I think I see how that one was spun.

Maybe because the IR35 changes had the potential to make a massive impact on everything we do whereas the change in the tax free dividend band will cost us all £225 in extra tax a year.

I know which I can live with.

[eek]

Funny how we're all happy we dodged the IR35 bomb, so came away happy, when in reality we got more dividend tax. I think I see how that one was spun.

That was previously announced back in March which is why this budget contained so little. Half of it was already announced

[SeanT]

An extra 90,000 tax when I buy a house - so maybe I'll have to do another contract after all.

( Workings - 5000 stamp duty, 95 percent mortgage means prices up 100,000 tax at 50 percent, so now pay 100,000 minus 10,000 = 90,000 extra)

FTFY

[willendure]

Funny how we're all happy we dodged the IR35 bomb, so came away happy, when in reality we got more dividend tax. I think I see how that one was spun.

[SeededLoaf]

Stamp duty will impact house prices in a small way. Those people who are saving for a deposit will now be able to buy sooner thus keeping the big old bubble inflated.

I wish I had a massive pin in the shape of 5% base interest rate.

Happy days about the delay of private sector IR35 rules. I was pretty sure it was coming this time

[seeourbee]

House prices are determined by how much you can borrow - this stamp duty change isn’t going to result in a £95,000 increase in house prices.

No. They are not.