Ignoring economics.

[woohoo]

Individual countries can and do cooperate on climate change. It's a big enough problem that it needs cross-government cooperation. I believe that's more likely to happen and be effective with a larger EU with the UK still in it.

But, actually, I've little interest in arguing on a point by point basis. All of the points are matters of degrees. None become impossible outside the EU, but all of them become more difficult (or less effective).

Good luck with economy thing. I suspect it'll be a 5-10% hit on GDP per capita which will never be recovered.

Right, why did you bother typing your post if you didnt want to discuss it.

[woohoo]

Based on what? How?

Based on buying goods/services from outside the EU cheaper than we do know. Selling to countries without being restricted by a custom union. Ability to create trade deals, if we want to, with other countries. Less bureaucracy, red tape etc.

Not supposed to be an economic question/answer but there you go. Apologies.

[sal]

1. Yep but the point is it's woven into case law, employment practice etc. I just don't see it changing much.
2. Yep but if your depressing view is correct, this is happening whilst in the EU - I know services/housing etc have been under invested for years. The pound has been overvalued for a while, so you can argue it's a good things it's devalued.
3. Skilled workers want to work here for many reasons. I've been involved in companies that have a wide range of workers from outside of the EU and people want to work here for many reasons.
4. There are many barriers for small businesses within the EU, it suits the larger companies to have barriers and hoops to jump through, smaller businesses just can't compete. That's the downside of over regulation. I don't hold that suddenly cheap inferior imports will flood into the market, there are international standards that have to be adhered to. And in the end we can set our own standards, like many other developed countries.
5. That's a delusion. The EU has 27 states with their own interests, which then on top of that has several levels of bureaucracy. Look at how Greece was handled by the EU, insanity!

2. Yes this is happening whilst we are in the EU and these topic dominated the press which made the government at least pretend they are looking into it. Nowadays they just ignore them being busy with Brexit

3. Whether skilled workers want to come to the UK or are going to do so in the future are 2 completely different stories. I'm not saying that they will drop to zero, just that the numbers will be significantly reduced. The "best and brightest" that we supposedly want to limit our immigration policy to, usually have plenty of other options within the EU. Visa/work permit applications often take months to process and they will always hang as Damocles sword over their and their families future, having to rely on a xenophobic UK bureaucrat to approve/deny their renewal on a whim. Thanks but no thanks.

4. What are these many barriers to small business in the EU? If I have the required documents to sell something in my home EU country, I can hop on e-bay/amazon and start selling my products in an instant (there might be small exceptions to alcohol, tobacco and medication). I don't need to conform to 2 sets regulations or through time/money consuming customs clearing process. International standards are quite inferior to the EU ones. You are in for a chock once you see the result of dropping to them, US food standards for instance. We can of course develop our own, which is likely to take decades with the speed of the UK bureaucracy or find a way to stick with the EU ones while outside of the EU.

5. For Greece the only fault of the EU is not doing it's due diligence before allowing it in the Eurozone. I have relatives who live in Greece for 10+ years, from them I know rather well what actually happened is happening over there. It's Greece own fault for running debt addicted socialist policies for decades that had let to the crisis. EU gave them simple choices - leave the Eurozone and declare bankruptcy or remain in the Eurozone and "atone" for decades of reckless government spending. All of the decisions where made by their democratically elected Government not unanimous by the EU. Of course just like in the UK, media and government is blaming it all on the evil EU.

[Lambert Simnel]

Right, why did you bother typing your post if you didnt want to discuss it.

Largely posted because some significant reasons hadn't been mentioned.

I don't want to discuss it because I honestly don't believe this forum is at all conducive to intelligent reasoned discussion. It gets belligerent, offensive and irrational awfully quickly on any topics such as Islam, the EU, climate change, racism or sexism. It's just not attractive at all for a very occasional participant such as myself.

[northernladyuk]

Largely posted because some significant reasons hadn't been mentioned.

I don't want to discuss it because I honestly don't believe this forum is at all conducive to intelligent reasoned discussion. It gets belligerent, offensive and irrational awfully quickly on any topics such as Islam, the EU, climate change, racism or sexism. It's just not attractive at all for a very occasional participant such as myself.

Perkin Warbeck seems perfectly happy with the forum.

[woohoo]

Largely posted because some significant reasons hadn't been mentioned.

I don't want to discuss it because I honestly don't believe this forum is at all conducive to intelligent reasoned discussion. It gets belligerent, offensive and irrational awfully quickly on any topics such as Islam, the EU, climate change, racism or sexism. It's just not attractive at all for a very occasional participant such as myself.

Well I can't argue with that.

[Paddy]

Based on buying goods/services from outside the EU cheaper than we do know. Selling to countries without being restricted by a custom union. Ability to create trade deals, if we want to, with other countries. Less bureaucracy, red tape etc.

Not supposed to be an economic question/answer but there you go. Apologies.

Weasel words, you seems clueless.

[woohoo]

Weasel words, you seems clueless.

Don't bother asking me questions in future Paddy and I won't waste both our time.

[WTFH]

Lambert's point is validated by the first page of posts on this thread.

The OP asked a question - whether genuinely interested or just trolling, I don't know.
Perhaps if you look back over the first couple of pages of responses and consider whether those people think Brexit is a good idea or not, there might be a clue.

The reason why the OP has had to repeat himself is because any attempt at sensible discussion is stifled by those not interested in intelligent debate.

...and perhaps that actually is the answer to the OP's question.

[bobspud]

Unlike you lot I have met the guy - he was my last constituency MP and we were meeting about a couple of contractor-related issues such as PS IR35 changes - and he came across as both honest and intelligent, unlike some other MPs I've dealt with, and well informed on the subject at hand. He could, of course, simply be a consummate actor.

Yes, he is an old Etonian and a Cambridge graduate. He was also a freelance stockbroker for many years which is where his personal money came from and he went into politics at the end of that career. So we may assume he understands working for a living, self-employment and some other things relevant to the rest of us here. Unlike a lot of career politicians.

So, your point is?

I'm in his fan club too. He's far from an idiot and at least he doesn't pretend to be someone he is not.

#mogmentum