The 50 year old programmer

[SueEllen]

as soon as they are old enough they'll be getting Saturday jobs at the local shopping center, that will go someway to show them how difficult it is to earn money, and how tough life is in those jobs

they're already looking forward to getting Saturday jobs

the oldest is in the local grammar school and the youngest will do the exam next year

when the oldest was preparing for the exam I told her, you work hard and pass this exam and get into that school, you will then have choices, it'll be your choice if you're a lawyer or a binman, but, if you don't work hard at school, you won't have any choices, you'll have to take any job you're given

Milan.

That's not true.

Though she would have to be more cunning if she got into a different school.

[edison]

Yeah i think one of the challenges is that companies have 'graduate fast track schemes' which they think by picking the brightest and best of the new young graduates and putting them on some sort of mgmt fast track course they will somehow become great managers.

May have been true 20 years ago but today because
a) Degrees are so easy to come by
b) University life is now so sheltered from the real world

These people are in the main completely unsuited to any sort of mgmt position until they have at least 10 years of life experience.

A number of the ones I have seen seem to think if they talk a lot and ask a lot of questions it will be fine.

I expect someone in a position of responsibility to know most of the answers not expect everyone else to supply them
.

I have to disagree with you. Just because a person has 10, 20, even 30 years of experience, does not automatically make them suitable to be a good manager, never mind a leader. A large proportion of people progress through promotions in functional roles but haven't got a clue about what being a manager involves but to be fair, they receive very little training, education or coaching to do this. The idea that a manager knows most of the answers is also a bit outdated. Good managers create and lead teams of good people who between them should have most of the answers or be able to work them out.

As someone approaching 50, I love working with 'younger' people whether they are a new 21 year old graduate or a fairly experienced 30 something. It keeps me feeling energised and young at heart too. Just because one has been there and done it (almost) all, doesn't mean you stop from being able to learn something from others, no matter how young or inexperienced they may be.

[original PM]

I have to disagree with you. Just because a person has 10, 20, even 30 years of experience, does not automatically make them suitable to be a good manager, never mind a leader. A large proportion of people progress through promotions in functional roles but haven't got a clue about what being a manager involves but to be fair, they receive very little training, education or coaching to do this. The idea that a manager knows most of the answers is also a bit outdated. Good managers create and lead teams of good people who between them should have most of the answers or be able to work them out.

As someone approaching 50, I love working with 'younger' people whether they are a new 21 year old graduate or a fairly experienced 30 something. It keeps me feeling energised and young at heart too. Just because one has been there and done it (almost) all, doesn't mean you stop from being able to learn something from others, no matter how young or inexperienced they may be.

I didn't say if you have 10 years of life experience it will make you a good manager.

I said without it you will likely be a poor one regardless of your educational qualifications.

[Fronttoback]

I didn't say if you have 10 years of life experience it will make you a good manager.

I said without it you will likely be a poor one regardless of your educational qualifications.

What are the attributes and behaviours of a good manager?

I am not managed. IT pay me, I talk to the business and get things done without help. I'm about 20 times as productive as some of the others in the team. And that's nice but I'm thinking of stepping into management and I'm wondering if I'm cut out for it.

[shaunbhoy]

The idea that a manager knows most of the answers is also a bit outdated.

No it isn't. The best managers have at least a decent level of understanding of what is involved and a good understanding of what the team might require in order to attain the required results,

They can then appreciate when things are deviating from what is needed and make the correct adjustments.

[_V_]

At the end of the day the only thing you can really give your kids is an education.

And ponies.

and a slightly shabby stately home set in 70 acres.

[vetran]

a good manager knows their team and the real challenges and marries the two with the least pain.

A great manager makes the team exceed the challenges and makes it look like it that is what should of happened.

I have had managers who had to talk regardless & managers who knew they didn't need to. I know which I prefer. The skill to know when to keep quiet takes experience.

[oliverson]

I hear you, brother.

I also thought the Home Computing boom of the 1980s would've made us all millionaire many times over. Still, every month, if not every week, I hear the clarion call from a concern relative, love one or spouse about the future of software developer. "Why don't you become a manager?", "You need to become more senor?". I thought to myself that I would move to a technical leader or something, but it never officially happens. Now, I think I will move sideways to being some "ivory tower" solution architect, but it is hard getting those opportunities as a contractor software developer.

I sympathise with you too, I'd rather not wipe the snot off the nose of the next indoctrinated "Thought Robot Worker". In them 1980's days, Agile was not a thing, who gave a damn about waterfall (SDLC methodology)? It was all Jackson Structured Programming (Remember that process?). And functional programming was an academics wet dream, the doors were just opening into Object Oriented Programming (OOP). The sillicon chips were all 8-bit Z-80 and 6502 microprocessor and we loved it! `Sabre Wulf' on the ZX Spectrum and Elite on the trusty BBC Model B computer ruled the world!

If you find the answer the 50+ programmer conundrum, please let us all know.

Ha ha, I remember all this. I once had my name mentioned in Computer & Video Games as the first guy to complete Sabre Wulf! (though I did prefer Atic Atac).

[woohoo]

Beeep beeep beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepppppppp

The thread died a sad death.

[oliverson]

I guess either I didn't make the point clear enough or you missed it

regarding cars, yes, nowadays, these days we have nice cars, which are sustainable, and despite liking cars they're not the be all and end all, and I would have no problem to down size.

A couple of years ago we were driving somewhere and oldest daughter laughed at a family in a smaller/older car, I said to her, you ever do that again, and we'll sell this thing and buy one of those and you'll learn to appreciate what you have

needless to say, she didn't do it again

Milan.

Remember pulling up at some traffic lights in my Merc convertible and there was a similar family in a similar smaller/older car. I felt quite ashamed sat there with the roof down. Had the opposite effect of what I thought having a car like that would have. Instead of the perceived feeling of envy and respect, I would imagine they felt I was a total ******. And I was. These days I drive a used 6 year old motor.