The Big NIC U turn

[jamesbrown]

the hole isn't that big and wasn't worth filling in the first place.

Oh, but that wasn't the hole. That was the opening to a cave . I expect this was also a trail balloon to gauge resistance (). This was surely the start of a complete overhaul of taxation of different forms of working and income, and I'd anticipated much bigger changes in the Autumn Budget. It's going to be interesting to see how they handle it now, but a crackdown on false self-employment is more inline with Tory thinking than increases in NICs or dividend taxation, which were only ever going to be short-term measures.

[AtW]

Dividend tax affects rich Tories especially pensioners. So he puts that up and there will be a backbench Tory MP revolt.

Rich Tory pensioners will have a lovely £500 tax free dividend allowance...

[jamesbrown]

No but I can say "increased dividend tax".

This was a short-term measure. The Tory backbenches are fully onside with measures against "false self-employment", while most are against tax rises. For the same reason, I was surprised to see a recent comment in the Grauniad about an extension of the PS rules being difficult to get through the Commons - I'm skeptical TBH, particularly following this U-turn. It's much easier to sell a crackdown on false self-employment, which carries the illusion of being targeted and against avoidance, than an across-the-board increase in NIC or dividend taxation, which is definitely not targeted and a much harder sell in the Tory shires. The increased dividend taxation was also widely criticised in the Tory press.

[SueEllen]

This was a short-term measure. The Tory backbenches are fully onside with measures against "false self-employment", while most are against tax rises. For the same reason, I was surprised to see a recent comment in the Grauniad about an extension of the PS rules being difficult to get through the Commons - I'm skeptical TBH, particularly following this U-turn. It's much easier to sell a crackdown on false self-employment, which carries the illusion of being targeted and against avoidance, than an across-the-board increase in NIC or dividend taxation, which is definitely not targeted and a much harder sell in the Tory shires. The increased dividend taxation was also widely criticised in the Tory press.

I suspect it's lobbying from companies in including some of which the Tory MPs are directors of.

Corbyn was talking about bogus self-employment at PMQs. (It was suppose to be a question but wasn't.)

[LondonManc]

This was a short-term measure. The Tory backbenches are fully onside with measures against "false self-employment", while most are against tax rises. For the same reason, I was surprised to see a recent comment in the Grauniad about an extension of the PS rules being difficult to get through the Commons - I'm skeptical TBH, particularly following this U-turn. It's much easier to sell a crackdown on false self-employment, which carries the illusion of being targeted and against avoidance, than an across-the-board increase in NIC or dividend taxation, which is definitely not targeted and a much harder sell in the Tory shires. The increased dividend taxation was also widely criticised in the Tory press.

It'll be harder to get through because the Tory backers are heavy users of contingent workers. I think they'll hold fire to "prove" that it has "worked" in the public sector before trying to get commitment from the backers.

Tackling the complete tax evaders would have universal approval; for example, all foreign workers must go full PAYE for the first two years and pay tax here.

[d000hg]

Of course I expect there to be no u turn on the attacks on small incorporated business though.

Which attacks other than NI were announced? The dividend allowance reduction, what else?

[SueEllen]

It'll be harder to get through because the Tory backers are heavy users of contingent workers. I think they'll hold fire to "prove" that it has "worked" in the public sector before trying to get commitment from the backers.

Tackling the complete tax evaders would have universal approval; for example, all foreign workers must go full PAYE for the first two years and pay tax here.

No five years.

That way when they have recourse to public funds it will make it seem like they have adequately paid into the pot.

[LondonManc]

No five years.

That way when they have recourse to public funds it will make it seem like they have adequately paid into the pot.

Fair enough, I was being kind I guess.

Two years for health treatment, five for the rest.

[d000hg]

Dividend tax affects rich Tories especially pensioners.

So he puts that up and there will be a backbench Tory MP revolt.

It affected them when these taxes were introduced too, to a far greater extent. Since they're talking about 'fairness' and comparable tax treatment, increasing dividend tax above income tax seems tricky to sell.

Reducing the dividend allowance by £3000 gets them a fair whack per PSC which is quite significant.

[jamesbrown]

I suspect it's lobbying from companies in including some of which the Tory MPs are directors of.

Corbyn was talking about bogus self-employment at PMQs. (It was suppose to be a question but wasn't.)

Could be. IIRC, the form of words in the Grauniad implied it was a direct quote from Gauke or Ellison. I expect the PM will take a much closer interest following this NIC debacle, so things could change quite a bit.