Honesty/Integrity best policy with agents/clients? Umm nope

[LondonManc]

Dunno. If he did this and started the new gig then he's still in breach as he is unavailable to fulfill his obligations to the client. This might incense the client and agent to the point they'll go after him harder than they would otherwise. Am just guessing but you know what I mean.

Yeah, there's usually a lot of guesswork with what goes on in South Wales.

The only risk he runs is if someone finds out he's started a new gig.

[psychocandy]

My thoughts exactly - or he sends in a substitute(assuming his contract allows it)

Grey area methinks. Im sure client wont see it that way though.

Sub - is in there. But not going to be doable in practice.

[vetran]

Grey area methinks. Im sure client wont see it that way though.

Sub - is in there. But not going to be doable in practice.

offer a qualified sub, watch them break the contract?

[SimonMac]

Hmmm, this sounds familiar, have a word with the OP in this thread and see how they resolved it

http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...-one-here.html

[MarillionFan]

Honestly. Amateurs!

Either threaten a work colleague, punch a colleague, slap one of the HR girls arse or drop you trousers and drop a huge turd on someone's desk. Always works for me in no notice contracts.

[northernladuk]

offer a qualified sub, watch them break the contract?

But it's not as simple as that... Well it might be but there is a time element here.

I'd be interested to know the legals around this. I know it's very bad for your IR35 status because you've proved your RoS is a sham. It only stands up because although we didn't do it we believe it would be possible. If you know it isn't then you are in a spot of bother.

But anyway, we need to know what type of breach refusal of RoS is. Interesting paragraph below,

Breach of Contract

It also mentions anticipatory which would be what PC is doing if he is going pull a sickie for two weeks.

Types of Breach of Contract
The main types of breach of contract will be minor, material, fundamental, and anticipatory. Minor breaches can be, for example, a builder who substitutes his own type of materials for specified materials. The substituted materials may work just as well as the specified but it can still be seen as a minor breach of contract.
A material breach can be a breach that has serious consequences on the outcome of the contract. A fundamental breach would be one so serious that the contract has to be terminated. An anticipatory breach is one where one of the parties makes it known that they will not be carrying out agreed work, and the consequences can be termination of the contract and damages being sought in court.

Depending on which level of breach dictates what action can be taken. I am guessing with RoS you
put the legwork in to find someone
offer them up to the client and he says no
you then have to get in to negotiation as to why and how to rectify
goes nowhere then you can start breach.

I am sure just because they say no there and then that's the end of the contract. You've got to give them the option to change their minds and negotiate until you have an answer. No judge will hear a case based on a single no without allowing the client to rectify. That client then takes their time, most likely more time than PC has so it's not really a viable option.

[VillageContractor]

Honestly. Amateurs!

Either threaten a work colleague, punch a colleague, slap one of the HR girls arse or drop you trousers and drop a huge turd on someone's desk. Always works for me in no notice contracts.

If I had a choice it would be this one

[billybiro]

offer a qualified sub, watch them break the contract?

This.

Far too many people in this thread are not thinking like a business.

PC, personally, needs out of the gig. Fine, but his Ltd. can continue and fulfil their contractual obligations to the client. So, he simply sends in a substitute to do the work. If the client refuses the sub, they're in breach of contract and you can therefore legitimately terminate.

In fact, the way this client has been so far - unreasonably stubborn and uncommunicative - I'd be tempted to do send that sub in without even letting them know in advance (providing the contract didn't explicitly state that I do so). I'd leave on a Friday, and the following Monday, Bob Shawadiwadi (whose paper degree from the Indian Institution of Science and Engineering in New Delhi proves he's more than qualified! ) walks through the door to continue where I'd left off!

[LondonManc]

This.

Far too many people in this thread are not thinking like a business.

PC, personally, needs out of the gig. Fine, but his Ltd. can continue and fulfil their contractual obligations to the client. So, he simply sends in a substitute to do the work. If the client refuses the sub, they're in breach of contract and you can therefore legitimately terminate.

In fact, the way this client has been so far - unreasonably stubborn and uncommunicative - I'd be tempted to do send that sub in without even letting them know in advance (providing the contract didn't explicitly state that I do so). I'd leave on a Friday, and the following Monday, Bob Shawadiwadi (whose paper degree from the Indian Institution of Science and Engineering in New Delhi proves he's more than qualified! ) walks through the door to continue where I'd left off!

We're thinking like PC; you're assuming he's acting like a business.

[northernladuk]

This.

Far too many people in this thread are not thinking like a business.

PC, personally, needs out of the gig. Fine, but his Ltd. can continue and fulfil their contractual obligations to the client. So, he simply sends in a substitute to do the work. If the client refuses the sub, they're in breach of contract and you can therefore legitimately terminate.

I still don't think you can terminate on the spot and walk off. That's just not going to stand up in court if he does go legal. You've got to give the client time to change his decision before it's unsolvable and then you go breach. If the client says we would have changed our mind if we knew this was going to happen you are going to lose your case on the spot. Probably a get out in some cases and I'd be interested in the process/legalities but to get out of a gig in less then 2-3 weeks I can't see it working very well. If he's no choice he could try. A smart cookie would wait a week to reply and then take 3 weeks thinking about rectifying it and PC's time is up.

In fact, the way this client has been so far - unreasonably stubborn and uncommunicative - I'd be tempted to do send that sub in without even letting them know in advance (providing the contract didn't explicitly state that I do so). I'd leave on a Friday, and the following Monday, Bob Shawadiwadi (whose paper degree from the Indian Institution of Science and Engineering in New Delhi proves he's more than qualified! ) walks through the door to continue where I'd left off!

Well for a start I don't see PC has officially requested a sub so the process hasn't even started. Currently PC is asking them for a favour to get out of the contract. They are under no obligation to accept so it's 'as per contract' until PC hears otherwise. Not very cool of them to play the non-communication line but they aren't obliged to listen. PC wants a favour, client wants to keep to contract. That's about it. Push them for an answer and it's more likely to be 'sorry but as per contract'

I also think you've got the concept of a substitute all wrong. I was always under the impression the sub would pickup seemlessly where you left off. This would involve some training at the OP's own time and cost. Leaving on Friday and sending a random bod in on Monday is not a substitute. He can't pick up where PC left off because he has had no inducation or training and the client shouldn't have to fund that for a substitute. He might and if so happy days but IMO that's not an acceptable substitute.

If the client had been even remotely understanding/flexible then none of this would matter and everyone would be happy with minimal disruption. Shame the client doesn't understand or is too bloody minded to bother. Their loss.