Are we being manipulated?

**Mordac** · 6 November 2006, 00:49

Originally posted by NoddY

Lower the tax on diesel, not raise the tax on petrol.

Diesel is a bigger pollutant than petrol. Plus only a knob would choose to drive a diesel car over a petrol one.

**AtW** · 6 November 2006, 01:11

Originally posted by Mordac

Plus only a knob would choose to drive a diesel car over a petrol one.

Why? You get the thing that matters - torque, and with twin turbo approach the engine rocks, of course it does not rev as high and fuel does not smell same way, but every self-respecting knob would choose diesel car over petrol.

**lukemg** · 6 November 2006, 09:40

'OwlHoot in "sooner or later they must dig the tunnels anyway, to bury the waste" mode'

That's bloody brilliant, dig the tunnel first, chuck the reactors in, seal in after use or if any problems, easier to keep secure/contain any problems.
Ok, interesting bit of info, UK turns off ALL it's power stations today. In 13 months China's production of co2 will have risen enough to replace our total output.
Point is, there is no Micro-view of this issue, it is 100% Macro (no, not the cash + carry place). We can piss in the wind and turn the odd TV off but giving the government cart-blanche to screw more taxes out of the few of us who pay any is total b*llocks.
Economics will determine the way things develop as always. If we reduce use of fossil fuels, they will only last an extra 20 years and still end up getting used, big deal and after that, all energy production will be essentially carbon neutral - happy days.
Squeeze on gas/oil prices is already meaning people are paying a lot more to heat things and move anywhere, which in turn means they will seek ways to reduce this cost. Also - it is making other energy production methods look economically attractive, producing a natural pull towards alternatives that no amount of pushing can replicate.
In short - don't believe the hype, save energy for your own selfish reasons and pray the rest of the world does the same. But guess what - they wont because outside the mature, wealthy, comfortable countries, the rest of the world are mostly living in grinding poverty and they want what we've got and don't give a toss if the tree frog dies out on the way. Man is essentially selfish and tribal as it always has been. Strip away a few of societies constraints (4 meals away from chaos etc) and it is everyone for themselves. Try to squeeze a bit of enjoyment out of your tiny lifespan, without causing grief to anyone else and forget about everything else.

**BlasterBates** · 6 November 2006, 10:21

Scientists have now discovered that radiation levels that are higher than normal, and lower than 100 (whatever these units are), makes you healthier. 100 is typical of the levels that Engineers are exposed to in accidents

Perhaps they'll be selling Plutonium in the Pharmacists.

**zathras** · 6 November 2006, 11:09

Originally posted by Troll

It all seems a warm up to some nasty tax rises being dreamt up

I think this came out and Gordon Brown could n't contain his glee at being able to raise taxes, get himself out of the hole of his over spending, and actually being able to tax people in a way they would not complain (until it penetrated their brains as to who would pay it).

I don't think Gordon Brown has the foresight to actually create this.

Note with all this talk about Tax Rises nobody has mentioned any tax breaks for using hybrid cars and adding a windmill to your property. Nor has anybody mentioned how inefficient it actually is to build a big power station, generate power and then transport it via wires to where it is actually used. Nobody is looking at encouraging the use of smaller generating systems (wind, solar etc). Not to mention that the government thinks the answer is Nuclear Fusion. Ten years to build the things, 10 years of use, 10 years to decommission and 10,000 years to get rid of the cr*p!

In addition I see no mention of tax breaks for people to get broadband, get equipment installed in home to do most of their work at an office in the home and use a combination of virtual offices and meeting room hire to deal with physical meetings. So what we have is this totall useless system whereby people are forced to get in a metal box, pump more cr*p into the atmosphere or get squashed on some long metal box, alongside other poor unfortunates. They arrive at work frustrated, tired and fed up.

Instead they could get up, have a relaxing shower and be at their desk a few feet from bed all ready to do some work. And if they work better at 1pm - 9pm rather than 9-5 they can start work when they feel it.

**Bagpuss** · 6 November 2006, 11:48

Originally posted by zathras

I think this came out and Gordon Brown could n't contain his glee at being able to raise taxes, get himself out of the hole of his over spending, and actually being able to tax people in a way they would not complain (until it penetrated their brains as to who would pay it).

I don't think Gordon Brown has the foresight to actually create this.

Note with all this talk about Tax Rises nobody has mentioned any tax breaks for using hybrid cars and adding a windmill to your property. Nor has anybody mentioned how inefficient it actually is to build a big power station, generate power and then transport it via wires to where it is actually used. Nobody is looking at encouraging the use of smaller generating systems (wind, solar etc). Not to mention that the government thinks the answer is Nuclear Fusion. Ten years to build the things, 10 years of use, 10 years to decommission and 10,000 years to get rid of the cr*p!

In addition I see no mention of tax breaks for people to get broadband, get equipment installed in home to do most of their work at an office in the home and use a combination of virtual offices and meeting room hire to deal with physical meetings. So what we have is this totall useless system whereby people are forced to get in a metal box, pump more cr*p into the atmosphere or get squashed on some long metal box, alongside other poor unfortunates. They arrive at work frustrated, tired and fed up.

Instead they could get up, have a relaxing shower and be at their desk a few feet from bed all ready to do some work. And if they work better at 1pm - 9pm rather than 9-5 they can start work when they feel it.

Shhhh you're talking sense

**zathras** · 6 November 2006, 11:52

Originally posted by Bagpuss

Shhhh you're talking sense

Here is some more sense

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6115644.stm

**Mailman** · 6 November 2006, 13:25

Originally posted by AtW

Tax on petrol has to be increased - it should become a LOT more expensive to drive petrol car, so much that such cars should be pretty much worthless and this should trigger upgrades to diesel cars, which to be fair already taking up 40-50% of new car sales, but old junk needs to be thrown out and replaced.

You and I both know the Government will never lower tax on fuel. They will most likely increase tax on petrol (citing the fact that fewer people are buying it thus having to increase it to maintain levels of taxation rah rah rah)...but they will never lower tax!

After all, its only fair.

Mailman