Are we being manipulated?

[Troll]

Thousands of climate change campaigners have attended a rally in London, calling for world leaders to act urgently on the issue.

The action included a march from the US embassy to Trafalgar Square, where celebrities joined a demonstration.

Some 22,500 people attended the rally, said the police while organisers said 25,000. There were no arrests.

Ashok Sinha, director of Stop Climate Chaos, said climate change was "the biggest threat the planet faces".

Speakers at Trafalgar Square urged the government to push for a global treaty to cap global warming at 2C or less, as well as helping developing countries to adapt to climate change.

As the Stern Review was published last week, Chancellor Gordon Brown promised the UK would lead the international response to tackle climate change.

And Environment Secretary David Miliband said the Queen's Speech would feature a climate bill to establish an independent Carbon Committee to work with the government to reduce harmful emissions.

The events were kicked off by cyclists who went on a "protest bike ride" to hand a petition into Downing Street calling for a tightening of annual emission targets.

'Self defeating'

But one of the UK's top climate scientists warned in a BBC News website article that, although climate change was "a reality", the language being used by some campaigners was becoming exaggerated and could weaken the arguments for policy change.

Mike Hulme, of the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research, also said he was concerned over the phenomenon of "catastrophic" climate change.

This is very convinient coming so soon after the Stern report was published.

wtf are "Stop Climate Chaos" - they look far too organised and funded

It all seems a warm up to some nasty tax rises being dreamt up

[mcquiggd]

"Yes. Sorted. Next"

- John Reid

[hyperD]

...said climate change was "the biggest threat the planet faces".

The biggest threat the planet faces is an ignorant population that simply accepts anything its so called leaders proclaim without challenge.

One of the most depressing scenes I've observed recently was on the BBC's Question Time when Peter Hitchens spoke about the uncertainty of man-made activity on global warming and being met by ridicule and laughter from the audience in the same way that David Icke was ridiculed on Terry Wogan's chat show.

It's times like this when you want to say: "Stop the world, I want to get off".

[Buffoon]

I used to believe all this climate change stuff. However, since the language has changed to such apocalyptic terms I have become deeply sceptical. I am even beginning to come around to the popular American thinking that it is all another load of propaganda by the socialists.

Also, B’Liar says it’s happening, so it must be a lie. Brown sees it as just another little earner.

[NoddY]

One of the most depressing scenes I've observed recently was on the BBC's Question Time when Peter Hitchens spoke about the uncertainty of man-made activity on global warming and being met by ridicule and laughter from the audience in the same way that David Icke was ridiculed on Terry Wogan's chat show.

I saw this too; and was disturbed at the reaction of the audience. I consoled myself that Question Time audiences where a certain 'type'.

[AtW]

Look, maybe global warming stuff is all hype, but the reality is that climate HAS become warmer and not to do anything is playing with huge risk that is very real and it will cost UK probably more than any other country. So to argue about whether it is really man made activity or not is stupid because the impact of the case IF it is man made (and there is enough evidence for any rational person for that) is so big that some serious steps should be done now.

[NoddY]

Look, maybe global warming stuff is all hype, but the reality is that climate HAS become warmer and not to do anything is playing with huge risk that is very real and it will cost UK probably more than any other country. So to argue about whether it is really man made activity or not is stupid because the impact of the case IF it is man made (and there is enough evidence for any rational person for that) is so big that some serious steps should be done now.

Yes, but there where no real alternatives to any of the items being taxed - except for light bulbs! You CAN go out and buy low wattage bulbs, but most people CANNOT get the bus to work, because the geography and infrastructure of the country has been built for the motor car. You CANNOT realistically take the train to Southern Europe so you MUST travel by plane.

[AtW]

Yes, but there where no real alternatives

There are real alternatives: use diesel rather than petrol, that's a good step to reduce CO2 while reducing dependency on backwards countries whose main assset is oil.

Tax light bulbs big time too - I use them around the house, the price is not that bad and I can't remember the last time I had to change them apart from one case when I broke it.

Air travel impact is IMO overblown right now - it is fastest GROWING, but that's just dymanics not overall impact.

And most improtantly - money from econological taxes MUST be invested into alternative fuel research, and no bullcrap research - the real one, tough goals and whoever makes it first will get richer than rich.

[NoddY]

There are real alternatives: use diesel rather than petrol, that's a good step to reduce CO2 while reducing dependency on backwards countries whose main assset is oil.

Tax light bulbs big time too - I use them around the house, the price is not that bad and I can't remember the last time I had to change them apart from one case when I broke it.

Air travel impact is IMO overblown right now - it is fastest GROWING, but that's just dymanics not overall impact.

And most improtantly - money from econological taxes MUST be invested into alternative fuel research, and no bullcrap research - the real one, tough goals and whoever makes it first will get richer than rich.

I agree, mostly. My opinion is save fossil fuels for where they're absolutely required e.g. aviation and to develop technology such as biodiesel for motoring, renewables for electricity generation etc. More importantly there should be a balanced portfolio for energy sources for electricity generation - including nuclear.

As for biodiesel, why do we pay farmers just to leave fields fallow and manage the countryside when they could be growing fuel? Would this be 'carbon neutral' or have they changed the equation for photosynthesis?

[AtW]

Biodiesel is a good move, though there will be need for way too much crops to completely switch away, so it is not a solution - just a quick improvement that can be made - tax on petrol should gradually increase year on year, so that in 5-7 years priceis 3 times higher than that of diesel, this way people will switch en masse to diesel engines which would be a big plus.

What I mind however is scum NL taking in more taxes that actually will be wasted on PFIs and crap like that - any enviroment related tax should be ring fenced and only used on R&D to remove dependency on fossil fuels.