[Merged]Brexit stuff

[scooterscot]

Do you actually believe any of the stuff you write? You sound desperate. The only NHS 'promise' was for £100m. I posted the link previously.s

It definitely said £350 million. Regardless of what you know people believed something else. I think that's the point he's trying to make.

[darmstadt]

Do you genuinely believe people voted based upon ons suggestion on the side of a bus? The only people I know who were swayed by promises voted Remain through fear. Now they have seen the reality they would also vote leave.

Seems like 7% believed the spin: Voters react to post-Referendum world – Opinium

Still waiting on this 375 million figure, I've asked 3 times so far but still no response, linky please?

[shaunbhoy]

Sorry, you are trying to spin the lies of the Brexit camp to be positive things. They PROMISED on the sides of busses that we would give £350 million a week to the NHS.
They PROMISED that we would "take control of immigration"
They PROMISED that we would "take back our sovereignty"
Those were the three big pledges/promises, or to put it a different way, 52% of the population voted for those things, or voted believing that they would happen.
They haven't happened and those who promised/pledged them are doing nothing.

FFS! How colossally dim and naive can you be? Did you somehow imagine that disentangling ourselves from 43 years of EU membership would happen overnight? These things take time you dunderhead. If you don't appreciate that then I am astonished that you are even daring to amuse us with your vapid ramblings.

[darmstadt]

I can't hear anything. They've all taken their bats home.

Anyway, the Remnants on here are pathetic examples of moaners. If you really want to see spoilt brats throwing tantrums then head over to the Independent website. They are demanding democracy I. E. Vote again and are claiming that this vote was advisory. They seem to have forgotten the paragraph in the government leaflet stating that they would implement the result of the vote.

Once again you are unable to separate fact from fiction, It is true that all referenda in the UK are advisory – that is, they do not compel the government to follow the decision. Just because a leaflet sent around by an organisation said that they would trigger Article 50 doesn't actually mean that they will. Now I believe that they want to but they have absolutely no idea on how to do it nor have they any idea on how to follow it up and are currently in turmoil. Until they sort their collective wet knickers out, then you ain't going to see anything of the sort...

[dundeedude]

It definitely said £350 million. Regardless of what you know people believed something else. I think that's the point he's trying to make.

Agreed. Nowhere did they 'promise' £350m for the NHS. It said "let's give the NHS the £350m instead".

This sounds like an example of a proposal, amongst many proposals, to use the cash in other ways than for EU membership fees.

People who voted remain (which I, by the way, voted), seem to cling onto these 'promises'. The word 'promise' was not used and so it seems unfair to assume that all 'out' voters felt the above was a promise.

There were many valid reasons to cease EU membership and I'm sure a fair number of people voted based on those valid reasons. However for a campaign to win over voters with strange racist posters and suggestive - yet unjustifiably ridiculous - propsals, which were never going to be implemented, JUST to ensure an important minority of idiots voted with them, in order to ensure their win, suggests a pretty sad state of affairs and should be recognised as such. I think many people strongly think it would have been a sizeable majority 'remain' vote had it not been for the bus messages and racist xenophobic posters and rhetoric used to sway the proportion of the public who are genuinely racist and xenophobic without realising their beliefs extend way beyond the "get my country back" mantra.

[shaunbhoy]

I think many people strongly think it would have been a sizeable majority 'remain' vote had it not been for the bus messages and racist xenophobic posters and rhetoric used to sway the proportion of the public who are genuinely racist and xenophobic without realising their beliefs extend way beyond the "get my country back" mantra.

I think you will find that the only people that took any decision based on those "posters and rhetoric" would have been those who found them repugnant, and as a consequence would have been more inclined to thus vote Remain as a reaction to their negative message.
The sort of people that saw any justification in that element of the campaign were in all probability already completely sure what way they were voting anyway so I doubt they affected the outcome very much.
If you are going to try and micro-analyse the reasons behind why people voted the way they did, you would do well to ask yourself just how many of the undecideds voted Remain on the back of a whole range of veiled (and not so veiled) threats that were coming from Cameron, Osborne et al that have subsequently been shown to be disingenuous at best and downright lies at worst.
Furthermore, if HMG try and duck out of acting on the democratically stated wishes of the Electorate in any way by fabricating some future Referendum over this, expect a much bigger margin of victory for the Leave Campaign.
Very few Leavers will change their mind having seen that all of the "sky will fall in/emergency budget" propaganda was just hot air.
A considerable number of those who voted Remain due to the scaremongering tactics cited above may well reconsider their positions due to the fact that very little if any of the predicted carnage has unfolded.
And last but not least, of the sizeable number of people that could not decide which way to vote, so refrained, many may well choose to exercise that option at a future referendum in protest at the fact that HMG could be seen as having ignored the wishes of the majority.

[Flashman]

Agreed. Nowhere did they 'promise' £350m for the NHS. It said "let's give the NHS the £350m instead".

This sounds like an example of a proposal, amongst many proposals, to use the cash in other ways than for EU membership fees.

People who voted remain (which I, by the way, voted), seem to cling onto these 'promises'. The word 'promise' was not used and so it seems unfair to assume that all 'out' voters felt the above was a promise.

There were many valid reasons to cease EU membership and I'm sure a fair number of people voted based on those valid reasons. However for a campaign to win over voters with strange racist posters and suggestive - yet unjustifiably ridiculous - propsals, which were never going to be implemented, JUST to ensure an important minority of idiots voted with them, in order to ensure their win, suggests a pretty sad state of affairs and should be recognised as such. I think many people strongly think it would have been a sizeable majority 'remain' vote had it not been for the bus messages and racist xenophobic posters and rhetoric used to sway the proportion of the public who are genuinely racist and xenophobic without realising their beliefs extend way beyond the "get my country back" mantra.

Exactly. It wasn't a General Election . We weren't voting on a manifesto. Although some people did seem to ignore the actual question and voted Remain just because the Labour Party told them to do so.

Tribal politics is the bane of this country.

I'm pretty sure no one much took much notice of the Vote Leave marketing anyway. It was pretty poor stuff that to my mind almost lost us the referendum. All the activists I spoke to were telling VL to drop the NHS waffle and campaign on the democracy front.

Remain. Vote to leave and the economy will collapse , the UK will be isolated and we'll all eating gruel by Christmas.
Vote Leave . Vote to leave and we'll spend an extra couple of quid per person on the NHS. Wow

[GB9]

Once again you are unable to separate fact from fiction, It is true that all referenda in the UK are advisory – that is, they do not compel the government to follow the decision. Just because a leaflet sent around by an organisation said that they would trigger Article 50 doesn't actually mean that they will. Now I believe that they want to but they have absolutely no idea on how to do it nor have they any idea on how to follow it up and are currently in turmoil. Until they sort their collective wet knickers out, then you ain't going to see anything of the sort...

The organisation was the Government. Are you saying the Government lied to us? That's terrible!

The Government expected to win. No plan for exit. And having stayed he would stay to manage the leave process, Cameron then did a runner.

You can't expect a new team to work from scratch and pull the plug without a plan. That will take a few months. I'm sure they will manage it.

What we dont need is a bunch of pathetic, arrogant MPs and Lords who think they know best trying to stop the will of the people. Parliament voted to have the referendum with a yes / no question. They shouldn't get in the way of enacting the outcome.

[dundeedude]

I think you will find that the only people that took any decision based on those "posters and rhetoric" would have been those who found them repugnant, and as a consequence would have been more inclined to thus vote Remain as a reaction to their negative message.
The sort of people that saw any justification in that element of the campaign were in all probability already completely sure what way they were voting anyway so I doubt they affected the outcome very much.
If you are going to try and micro-analyse the reasons behind why people voted the way they did, you would do well to ask yourself just how many of the undecideds voted Remain on the back of a whole range of veiled (and not so veiled) threats that were coming from Cameron, Osborne et al that have subsequently been shown to be disingenuous at best and downright lies at worst.
Furthermore, if HMG try and duck out of acting on the democratically stated wishes of the Electorate in any way by fabricating some future Referendum over this, expect a much bigger margin of victory for the Leave Campaign.
Very few Leavers will change their mind having seen that all of the "sky will fall in/emergency budget" propaganda was just hot air.
A considerable number of those who voted Remain due to the scaremongering tactics cited above may well reconsider their positions due to the fact that very little if any of the predicted carnage has unfolded.
And last but not least, of the sizeable number of people that could not decide which way to vote, so refrained, many may well choose to exercise that option at a future referendum in protest at the fact that HMG could be seen as having ignored the wishes of the majority.

I was in Manchester the penultimate week prior to the referendum and in bolton for three days prior to it. I can assure you that people I spoke to seemed very keen on both the bus messages and "sending the foreigners back". Most worrying was the fact people were so vocal about it. Being on business I was eating out every meal and the amount of racist crap floating about was terrifying. Extrapolate Bolton to other 'traditional' northern English towns and it's easy to see people were urging on the xenophobia.

If you're worth your salt as a contractor on this forum your immediate neighbours won't necessarily be in this group, but in a normal estate with £65k houses galore it can only be presumed that these have a fair number of racists within it. Rich people benefitted from the EU - and I include contractors in this guesstimate. It was the poor and disenfranchised who voted en mass to leave.

[centurian]

Agreed. Nowhere did they 'promise' £350m for the NHS. It said "let's give the NHS the £350m instead".

That's not what it said - here is a photo of it

http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/arti...JS89532410.jpg

We send the EU £350 million a week
let's fund our NHS instead

The statements are on two separate lines - with different shades of background for each line.

It never said the NHS would, or should, receive the full £350m sum.

However, this image is far less ambiguous - banged to rights with this one.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/d...x7Vh5dC_YU.jpg