One for the Bremainers #613

[rl4engc]

Er you missed the part where the draft bill is sent to the un-democratic un-elected overpaid house of lords, who can then reject the bill if they bother turning up for work in the first place.

So you don't like the UK house of Lords, who are accountable and can be removed, but you're all over the EU Commission members who are unaccountable and can never be democratically removed?

[scooterscot]

So you don't like the UK house of Lords, who are accountable and can be removed, but you're all over the EU Commission members who are unaccountable and can never be democratically removed?

Yup. Me and many others. Speaks volumes doesn't it?

[VectraMan]

So you don't like the UK house of Lords, who are accountable and can be removed, but you're all over the EU Commission members who are unaccountable and can never be democratically removed?

How do we vote out Lords?

Who do you think chose the UK's EU commissioner? I'll give you a clue: He's a Tory turd and you don't like him.

[OwlHoot]

OK, this must be a fake website then:

Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) - Trade - European Commission

It's well known that the actual TTIP text is and always has been a (literally!) closely guarded secret.

That may have been understandable in the early stages of the negotiations, to give the participants a free hand in discussing possibly contentious issues. But the same obsessive secrecy has been maintained even now the thing is in pretty much its final version.

Even MEPs who want to read the text are ushered into a sound proof room in a Brussels office, frisked for mobile phones and cameras and writing implements, and then someone stands over them while they are allowed to briefly peruse the 10,000 page documents.

[vetran]

I'm always astounded how people see two problems, compare them and then decide to solve neither.

[scooterscot]

How do we vote out Lords?

Who do you think chose the UK's EU commissioner? I'll give you a clue: He's a Tory turd and you don't like him.

Don't start using facts for goodness sake. He'll unleash a pulitzer worthy fiction.

[SimonMac]

We all know how legislation is enacted in this country right? Our democratically elected MPs can table new legislation, it gets debated in parliament, it can be amended and the draft and all discussions are obviously visible to everyone to inspect, then it goes to a vote. All good and democratic, right?

Now, you'll probably also be aware of a dodgy US/EU trade deal called TTIP that's being discussed (in secret). It allows US companies to sue public bodies, e.g. the NHS.

But this TTIP is all visible and above board right? And we can inspect it for ourselves can't we? Well, no. Welcome to the EU equivalent of the above process, as demonstrated by Irish MEP Luke Flanagan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9RMWvYqkxk


Still better "In" this Mafia?

Would voting out guarantee that TTIP will never come back to these shores, or will the UK when negotiating their own trade agreement with America not be forced to accept them anyway

[BlasterBates]

Currently the UK can veto TTIP if it wants and some countries have already vetoed sections from proposed bits of the treaty.

The currently negotiations are looking to exempt the NHS from legal action and since the UK would almost certainly veto it if they didn't it doesn't look like the NHS would be open to legal action.

If the UK leaves the EU though it might end up signing up to TTIP as part of it's EU deal, in that case it couldn't veto it.

[BlasterBates]

Well done, you've posted a link to the TTIP website. Now would you be as good to provide a link to the full document text?

You know the one, it's the one that MEPs have to go into a little room with a pen and paper to inspect. That they can't copy it out verbatim.

CLUE: If you have a link to the full document text, I'd expect it to start "http://wikileaks.org/" and you can rightly claim your place in history with the likes of Edward Snowden and Chealsea Manning.

there you go:

European Commission publishes report on state of play of TTIP negotiations - Trade - European Commission

[rl4engc]

there you go:

European Commission publishes report on state of play of TTIP negotiations - Trade - European Commission

Erm, that's a report on how the negotiating of the document is going. Where's the link to the document?

doesn't look like the NHS would be open to legal action

That's alright then. As long as US corporations can still sue HM Government, or any of it's departments. All is OK.