EU Referendum: Do we enough information to take the correct decision?

[shaunbhoy]

They sidelined Farage, which in my view was mistake IF they actually wanted to win.

Not really. Those who support Farage have already made their position clear. Little to be gained by wasting resources pushing on that open door, and no sense in allying themselves too closely with Farage for fear of distancing themselves from their REAL target audience, the sizeable chunk of the Electorate that don't like Farage but who also don't like being dictated to by Brussels.
As jamesbrown points out, there have been very few real facts given out because we are talking about scenarios with too many variables.
What is an inescapable certainty is, however, that if we leave the EU we WILL have considerably more say, as voters, over who makes up our laws and who is accountable for our economic and social well-being. And if we are dissatisfied we have the means of changing it. Many might feel that this is something worth having in and of itself. I certainly do, and I sense that in the prevailing air of uncertainty, that an increasing number of other people may be feeling likewise.
The Government are certainly pulling out all the stops, but I think they are over-egging the pudding a bit and turning many people off. Particularly in light of the fact that the trust of the public in its political ruling elite seems to be at an all-time low.
It will be quite close I feel, and I still suspect that the Establishment will succeed in scaring enough voters into staying. However, we shall see before too much longer.

[AtW]

It will be quite close I feel, and I still suspect that the Establishment will succeed in scaring enough voters into staying.

Ja.

[jamesbrown]

No, it would not have worked either, but at least it would have been genuine campaign run by somebody who believed in leaving.

Vote Leave had to adopt a high-risk strategy to have a good chance of overcoming the status quo. The lesson from referendums around the world over many decades is that the status quo is incredibly difficult to overcome, and it only happens during a period of crisis. You can point to the "migration crisis", I suppose, but that isn't what I mean; there isn't a sense of crisis in the UK.

In my view, they should've adopted the "second referendum" strategy. It would've been incredibly high risk (and also quite dirty/disingenuous), because the establishment from the UK and EU would've done everything in their power to reject the possibility of a second renegotiation. However, if Vote Leave had managed to be convincing (and they certainly had time to plan), this is the only strategy that would've encouraged uncertain/undecided/worried voters to vote against the status quo, because it would've been a "soft vote", a vote for fundamental reform in the EU only, not for leaving. Let's face it, that's what the majority want.

I'm not suggesting there was a good likelihood of it working - chances are, it would've crashed and burned as the establishment would've been sufficiently convincing - but it was the only strategy that could've worked IMO. Unfortunately, this is where the lack of professionalism and team planning hit Vote Leave, because Boris was minded to head in this direction to begin with, but he hadn't coordinated or developed these thoughts sufficiently well, so Hamface et al. were allowed to get in early and ridicule the idea before it was formally pushed as a campaign strategy. This is the only strategy that would've had the Bremainers worried.

[AtW]

The only way to have fully sovereign country these days is to be like Democratic Republic of North Korea.

Perhaps UK should have never joined EU in the first place - back then it COULD have been correct decision, but right now it's too late - back then EU did not include Eastern Europe.

Next EU related referendum will be in EU - on subject of kicking out UK for not being a good club member.

[jamesbrown]

Next EU related referendum will be in EU - on subject of kicking out UK for not being a good club member.

I think the Netherlands will be next. With their new referendum law, they only need 300k signatures to hold one IIRC (although it's only advisory). Or Italy perhaps, depending on what happens with Grillo in the 2017 or 2018 elections. There's approaching 50% popular support in Italy for leaving. This isn't a UK-only issue.

[DimPrawn]

I think the Netherlands will be next. With their new referendum law, they only need 300k signatures to hold one IIRC (although it's only advisory). Or Italy perhaps, depending on what happens with Grillo in the 2017 or 2018 elections. There's approaching 50% popular support in Italy for leaving. This isn't a UK-only issue.

Be quite funny if we vote in and them Italy, Spain, Netherlands, Portugal and others all vote out. Leaving us ruled by the Germans and French from Brussels.

We will get what we deserve, undemocratic rule without representation or influence.

[AtW]

Be quite funny if we vote in and them Italy, Spain, Netherlands, Portugal and others all vote out. Leaving us ruled by the Germans and French from Brussels.

So it's the evil Germans preventing UK from having derestricted roads like autobahns???

And perhaps it's the French to keep price of return train ticket from Brum to London at £170??? Makes First Class at £250 attractive.

[dx4100]

More outrageous lies today from the outers... What a despicable bunch...

lie after lie after lie

[AtW]

More outrageous lies today from the outers... What a despicable bunch...

lie after lie after lie

Dude, the truth is so horrible that the electorate simply won't take it!

[jamesbrown]

From the brains behind Hamface.