New contract within IR35 by default?

[LondonManc]

SDC and IR35 are 2 completely different things. It's quite possible to be under SDC but outside IR35 subject to other clauses.

Scrub what was here. Seen it now.

As per other posters, who is this agency. I have a new contract with nothing like that in it and that passed the qdos review at the first attempt. It sounded like it's been worded by their administration team.

What is IR35 - The Four Pillars of IR35

You sure?

[GB9]

What is IR35 - The Four Pillars of IR35

You sure?

Control
RoS
MOO

You only need to demonstrate one in your favout to be outside ir35. In reality the judge would look at all in parallel. However, if you were subject to control but also put a sub on site, I think the chances of being found inside ir35 would be zero.

Plenty of eminent posters have pointed out the discrepancy between brollies and Ltd regarding the possibility of claiming expenses for a Ltd but not for a brolly, even though both may be subject to control.

[MrMarkyMark]

Control
RoS
MOO

You only need to demonstrate one in your favout to be outside ir35. In reality the judge would look at all in parallel. However, if you were subject to control but also put a sub on site, I think the chances of being found inside ir35 would be zero.

Plenty of eminent posters have pointed out the discrepancy between brollies and Ltd regarding the possibility of claiming expenses for a Ltd but not for a brolly, even though both may be subject to control.

Really, your view is miles away from mine.

[SpontaneousOrder]

Really, your view is miles away from mine.

That's the rule, unless it changed recently.

[GB9]

Really, your view is miles away from mine.

Case law.

Examples on right of this thread.

[Echo1234]

Hi just an update,
Spoke with the agency, People Source for those asking, and they are refusing to change the contract.
Their reasoning is because "of the new regulations" all contracts they are signing up will be within IR35, not sure if they mean with the current client or with every contractor they sign on, because of SDC because I will need to report to a line manage and work specified number of hours. Also had the line "we have a contractor who is starting Monday and he is in IR35 and not complaining"

The review from QDOS has came back as this:
"I am unable to complete your Full Contract Review today as the agency have issued you with the incorrect terms. The contract title contains the term “(WITHIN IR35 AND UNDER SDC)” – which states you are providing services within IR35 and are subject to the supervision, direction and control of the client. The contract refers to AWR throughout, as well as paid leave and rest breaks. These are all issues that should not apply to a limited company contractor. I recommend, therefore, that you ask the agency for the correct terms."

[vetran]

Hi just an update,
Spoke with the agency, People Source for those asking, and they are refusing to change the contract.
Their reasoning is because "of the new regulations" all contracts they are signing up will be within IR35, not sure if they mean with the current client or with every contractor they sign on, because of SDC because I will need to report to a line manage and work specified number of hours. Also had the line "we have a contractor who is starting Monday and he is in IR35 and not complaining"

The review from QDOS has came back as this:
"I am unable to complete your Full Contract Review today as the agency have issued you with the incorrect terms. The contract title contains the term “(WITHIN IR35 AND UNDER SDC)” – which states you are providing services within IR35 and are subject to the supervision, direction and control of the client. The contract refers to AWR throughout, as well as paid leave and rest breaks. These are all issues that should not apply to a limited company contractor. I recommend, therefore, that you ask the agency for the correct terms."

are you willing to walk if they won't supply the correct terms? That is pretty much your only option now.

[MrMarkyMark]

OK, but surely putting a sub on site would actually cover ROS and MOO, in reality, concurrently?

Anyways, @ OP looks like you may have hit a brick wall with this one, unless you can get the terms changed?
Even then the working conditions sound well iffy.

[Eirikur]

Quote them your "Inside IR35 Rate".

This remark may have been in jest, but it made me wonder, does anybody ever quote two rates to an agency one in case the contract falls Inside and one outside of IR35?

[Echo1234]

are you willing to walk if they won't supply the correct terms? That is pretty much your only option now.

Yeah I can walk away. Don't think the money will be worth it as I will need to work away from home so not being able to claim expenses will be a big deal.

I wonder now if it will be the case that when you apply for new contract roles will you also need to ask the agent is the daily rate an IR35 rate or not?