Reply to: New contract within IR35 by default?

[easyrider]

Same here : PeopleSource changed the contract on my request. Then they offered the role to someone else, still someone mentioned 'sharepoint' in the interview so that's probably all well and good.

[Mordac]

And that's the way they'll learn.

Guessing it will take a while though...

[SlipTheJab]

So latest update.
After a week People Source came back to me to say they have advised the client to change the contract terms and would like to bring me back.
Unlucky for them I've just managed to get another contract.
I'm guessing they are struggling for find any contractors willing to work within their contract terms

Well done for telling them to do one, I for one will be avoiding any roles adertised by this outfit, waste of my time if at the end of the interview process they bang over a swiss cheese contract like that

[Hobosapien]

So latest update.
After a week People Source came back to me to say they have advised the client to change the contract terms and would like to bring me back.
Unlucky for them I've just managed to get another contract.
I'm guessing they are struggling for find any contractors willing to work within their contract terms

And that's the way they'll learn.

[Echo1234]

So latest update.
After a week People Source came back to me to say they have advised the client to change the contract terms and would like to bring me back.
Unlucky for them I've just managed to get another contract.
I'm guessing they are struggling for find any contractors willing to work within their contract terms

[psychocandy]

I think this is going to happen more and more. Crap legislation, scaremongering etc.

You get clients who get scared and get the wrong end of the stick. Then you've got agencies who, as always, are just plain stupid. This is what happens.

Until they start to see that contractors are knocking back stuff like this then it'll continue unfortunately. I'm betting a lot will still take things like this.

One thing though - and I know this has been done to death. If they're trying to add opted out as a contract term surely this is illegal? Pity we haven't really got someone who can smack their arses for doing things like this - that would help.

[easyrider]

So you don't know so going to just plough on regardless?

I've not had the offer yet, still early days. I'll call IPSE! To the bat mobile Robin.

[Mordac]

Not quite as dramatic as a blacklist or anything that may cause legal issues but at least a way of informing CUKers of agencies to watch out for, and therefore an advantage to those agencies providing a better service.

Do you think any agency gives a monkey's chuff what you, me, or anyone else thinks? Legal issues? Something to do with where the sun doesn't shine springs to mind...

[northernladuk]

So you don't know so going to just plough on regardless?

[easyrider]

The contract has an 'audit' clause that seems to mean that my Ltd can be audited to make sure it is doing what they want it to tax wise.
It's wrong on many levels, but bills have to be paid and it's local.
What about the clients tax affairs? Are their directors on the dodgy dealings leaked list? Do they have a record of (IR35 friendly) non or late payments to contractors?
I hate this feeling of persecution that pervades these days.
I suppose an alternative is to just continue as if outside of IR35 and keep a stash in case the mafia come calling! I don't know how the NI etc would be taken from an inside IR35 contract, do I do it or does the client remove it at source?

[SueEllen]

It's just not worth it and would just ultimately spread false information. The contract should also reflect the upper contract with the client so it is highly possible the contract will change per client. Agencies might change their ways sonourblist would also be out of date. It will also just suit the tickbox contractor that hasn't the nouse to deal with agents, bearing in mind this is our actual job.

WHS

I've been on sites where virtually every contractor I talked to through the same agency had negotiated slightly different terms.

There were things in the upper contract that should have been incorporated, but it was up to the contractor to demand they were put in in full. Whether they were or not depended on whether the contractor got the contract reviewed and who reviewed the contract.

[northernladuk]

It's just not worth it and would just ultimately spread false information. The contract should also reflect the upper contract with the client so it is highly possible the contract will change per client. Agencies might change their ways sonourblist would also be out of date. It will also just suit the tickbox contractor that hasn't the nouse to deal with agents, bearing in mind this is our actual job.

[Hobosapien]

Maybe there's a thread/sticky somewhere on here (or there should be) where we can add agencies with these types of default contracts trying to force being inside IR35, with feedback on how flexible the agency turned out to be on getting the terms changed or a different template used.

We could then have a list of agencies to be wary of, and a way for us to put pressure on them by showing we are aware of their poor default stance.

Not quite as dramatic as a blacklist or anything that may cause legal issues but at least a way of informing CUKers of agencies to watch out for, and therefore an advantage to those agencies providing a better service.

If not a good idea, I'm sure AIPSE will have our backs with this.

[easyrider]

I've just opened a contract from PeopleSource with the same title "TERMS OF ENGAGEMENT WITH A LIMITED COMPANY CONTRACTOR WHO HAS OPTED OUT OF THE CONDUCT REGULATIONS (WITHIN IR35 AND UNDER SDC)". What is even more disturbing is the mention of 'web forms' and 'support' in the role description.

[Hobosapien]

It's why I'm carefully moving myself up and out of this game.

I spent 3 months finding a contract that was interesting and I've made sure that any intellectual property I do (and there is at least 4 bits) is mine to sell elsewhere.

Interesting approach. See contracting as the plan B, and as a means to an end for plan A. Take time to find the right contract to help you achieve your goals of getting out of contracting and become more of a supplier.

I guess that's easier with a niche.

Maybe someone has a plan B that's identifying all the niches not yet saturated.