The Official Budget 2016 thread

[seeourbee]

I can see some interesting challenges / discussions coming up in the consultation.

Will IPSE be making representations?

IPSE are pretty useless at representing us quite frankly.

Interesting point re the pension - does being taxed under PAYE mean you are legally an employee. There's such an enormous amount of cards that could fall down here - holiday pay, sick pay, pension rights, maternity leave, service awards. They clearly haven't thought this through.

[seeourbee]

But that isn't the target, it's dividends. Really struggling to see your point. They can very easily introduce new rules in the public sector through contractual changes, based on the results of an upfront test. So a contract will be either inside or outside from the start. It will impact new business, but it remains to be seen how they will implement this for existing business (those in public sector gigs when the changes bite).

A Consultancy will have shares and pay dividends, just like my company. My point is that essentially my company and the big consultancies operate in the same way. The only difference is size. So if they want to tax my company they should tax the large consultancies in the same way. Unless this then promotes a move from 'Priced' work. - i.e. they pay for a 6 month contract for deliverables and move away from weekly timesheets etc.

[mudskipper]

'Tis early days, but I've no doubt they will.

https://www.ipse.co.uk/news/change-p...ositive-budget

On personal service companies

“We’re deeply disappointed the Chancellor has ignored the concerns of people working through personal service companies, with no desire to become employees. Previous rules for off-payroll working in the public sector have already created a lot of disruption to contractors working in Central Government. IPSE is very concerned the new rules will make matters worse.

“HMRC have told us they intend to consult closely with us over these new rules. We will work tirelessly to ensure they are fair for contractors in the public sector. We have been told by HMRC that these new rules will not apply to the private sector. The Government must keep its word on this and we would firmly oppose any future change to this position.

"If the rules aren’t clear or implemented properly there’s a huge risk of discouraging specialist contractors from lending their expertise to the efficient running of public services and the delivery of large-scale projects.

[DaveB]

But that isn't the target, it's dividends. Really struggling to see your point. They can very easily introduce new rules in the public sector through contractual changes, based on the results of an upfront test. So a contract will be either inside or outside from the start. It will impact new business, but it remains to be seen how they will implement this for existing business (those in public sector gigs when the changes bite).

They will terminate existing contracts on the 4th of April 2017 and issue new ones under the new rules on the 5th. Take it or leave it.

[mudskipper]

IPSE are pretty useless at representing us quite frankly.

Are you a member?

IPSE are taken seriously, have connections in the right places and get listened to. What don't you think they're doing that they should be in terms of representation?

[jamesbrown]

A Consultancy will have shares and pay dividends, just like my company. My point is that essentially my company and the big consultancies operate in the same way. The only difference is size. So if they want to take my company they should tax the large consultancies in the same way. Unless this then promotes a move from 'Priced' work. - i.e. they pay for a 6 month contract for deliverables and move away from weekly timesheets etc.

If the specific placements associated with a contract for services don't pass the new tests, there will be a stipulation that money paid for those services must go through PAYE RTI by the entity closest to the supplier. They can do this without changing IR35 because it's a contractual issue (although it may ultimately have implications for how they proceed with IR35, so the two things aren't separate). The rules will dictate which placements are caught or not but, yes, they will be able to distinguish using whatever criteria they want. In other words, it's within the power of these public bodies (and ultimately the Treasury) to dictate whether the rules are tight or loose. There could be anything from zero impact to a very large impact, depending on what terms are prescribed. So there's no reason to either panic or assume BAU at this stage.

[jamesbrown]

They will terminate existing contracts on the 4th of April 2017 and issue new ones under the new rules on the 5th. Take it or leave it.

Yep, good point.

[seeourbee]

I was and terminated my membership. It served me no purpose.

They claim a lot of things and are very good at writing 'we are not amused' statements, but I haven't seen them punch hard at all.

Having worked in a Department that works with them, I'm very familiar with how they are perceived. They are certainly not as influential as they think they are.

[AtW]

Is it over yet?

[DaveB]

Is it over yet?

Nope, we've got another 4 years of this crap.