An end to poverty?

[vetran]

I think money has a lot to do with greed. Once you have a significant amount of it, you want more. Everything from the MPs expenses scandal to bankers bonuses to the VW slush fund back in 2005 via every little backhander (i.e. BAE and the Arabs) to the black economy shows that...

Greed & aspiration / ambition do tend to get confused especially by the left.

I have more than many, I have a comfortable life. Now I could wish for enough money to mean I never have to work or that young starlets find me irresistible (I do sometimes) but on the whole I'm content.

I don't need to directly deprive anyone of things so I can have this life in this particular part of society we live in. However the left would see me as an Imperialist ravager of worlds despite never having being directly involved, in fact many of my Forefathers were over there fighting to keep the poorer countries free.

They fail to see responsibility for the LEDC's situation frequently lays closer to home or higher up the power structure, most normal people just want to be happy and enjoy a pleasant life.

[Jog On]

You quoted a guy who basically said 'leave people alone if want to do what they believe is right' and then linked to another guy who wants to forcibly extort funding from tax payers in order to fund things they don't necessarily believe is right.

Yes I did you're absolutely right. I posted a quote that said "those who say it can't be done should not get in the way of those who are doing it" Then posted a link to someone who is doing it.

You win though if that helps

[meridian]

I think it is changing gradually, just not as quickly as advances in technology. For example we don't burn witches any more and 'civilised' society does seem to be growing up and evolving.

If we can bring the "1%" to heel (the banks/arms industry/oil industry/big pharma/Monsanto etc) and sort out corporate ownership of politics we should be on course for the next phases of our evolution.

This appears to be happening with political movements (Corbyn/Syreza/Bernie Sanders etc), they may not succeed straight away but there seems to be a change in tide.

We have evolved this far, what's to say we will not continue evolving beyond money and war? It's nature innit? It's science FFS!

Just to be pedantic, but none of those examples are related to science (except perhaps the non-burning of witches). If human evolution is needed beyond money and war then it's in the fields of economics, business ethics, politics, and religion.

[DodgyAgent]

Whatever works for you DA. Aren't we lucky to have such clever people around to put us all straight on the subject of how to make the world a better place.

Here's a quote I like when it comes to the topic of this thread:



- George Bernard Shaw

Anyway - I know you have a burning need to be right which will keep you coming back and arguing to the death, how about you have your argument with Bill Gates:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...s-9075149.html

I have no issue with anything that Gates is saying in that article. My only issue is with so called do gooders on the left who think they know what is good for everyone else

[vetran]

I have no issue with anything that Gates is saying in that article. My only issue is with so called do gooders on the left who think they know what is good for everyone else

Gates is doing something positive with his own money.

Do-gooders frequently do something negative with ours.

I know which one I back!

[SpontaneousOrder]

Now some of the more short sighted posters can start prattling on about life without money = regressing back to a primitive lifestyle because of course that's what a world without money would look like....

Yes - in fact that is what a world without money would look like. Have you ever studies any economics? Do you know how many different people with entirely different skill sets it takes to manufacture even a pencil? Yet you somehow imagine 6 billion people, and growing, to have their wants and needs satisfied without any price signals?!

[SpontaneousOrder]

There are ancient tribes of people in the rainforest and other remote parts of the world who do not have the concept of money and are extremely happy and compassionate.

They're happy in the same way my cat is happy. But at least my cat will be put down when the time comes.

[Zero Liability]

Yes - in fact that is what a world without money would look like. Have you ever studies any economics? Do you know how many different people with entirely different skill sets it takes to manufacture even a pencil? Yet you somehow imagine 6 billion people, and growing, to have their wants and needs satisfied without any price signals?!

Yeah, even avowed socialists like Lange were not so clueless as to rail against money. A pity that TVP and the like is about 100 steps behind even that. Because, you know, computers and stuff.

[Jog On]

Yeah, even avowed socialists like Lange were not so clueless as to rail against money. A pity that TVP and the like is about 100 steps behind even that. Because, you know, computers and stuff.

You mean like this?

The Venus Project calls for a cybernated society in which computers could replace the outmoded system of electing politicians that in most cases represent the entrenched vested interests. This new technology will not dictate or monitor individual's lives, as in The Venus Project this would be considered socially offensive and counterproductive. Books such as 1984 and Brave New World, and motion pictures such as Blade-Runner and Terminator 2 have spawned fear in some people regarding the takeover of technology in our society. The Venus Project's only purpose is to elevate the spiritual and intellectual potential of all people, while at the same time providing the goods and services that will meet their individual and material needs.

Cybernation is the linking of computers with automated systems. Eventually the central cybernated systems will coordinate all of the machinery and equipment that serve the entire city, the nation and ultimately the world. One can think of this as an electronic autonomic nervous system extending into all areas of the social complex.

For example, in the agricultural belt the computers could automatically monitor and maintain the water table, soil chemistry, and coordinate the planting and harvesting of crops. In the residential sector, the system could maintain environmental cleanliness and the recycling of waste materials.

https://www.thevenusproject.com/en/t...y/city-systems

Do us a favour and please fully investigate something before trashing it. The only argument I can think of against TVP is that it's not 'economically viable' and 'too expensive' - which is the whole point of this thread.

Here's another cheesy quote for the scoffers and sneerers:

The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
Read more at The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about. - Wayne Dyer at BrainyQuote

You still win BTW -

[Zero Liability]

They can write whatever they like - in the end, computers can only work with the information they're given, and if the "prices" formed are just plucked out of the air or some "planners'"'spreadsheets, it won't be too different to the USSR before Lenin's NEP. If they plan on abolishing money, they won't even get that far.

Do us a favour and please fully investigate something before trashing it. The only argument I can think of against TVP is that it's not 'economically viable' and 'too expensive' - which is the whole point of this thread.

I have, but I doubt you have; TVP doesn't have a suitable answer to the economic calculation/knowledge problem based on information like the sort you've just quoted. It just inserts "supercomputers" into the equation, as if that'll suffice. Business is already making extensive use of IT but with the additional benefit of price signals, corrupted though they may be by various govt interventions. Also, I was directly addressing its economic viability.