This Farage Immigrants with HIV Business

[xoggoth]

It never seems to occur to some here that the overall net benefit of migrants would actually be increased by a reduction in immigration, by restricting it to high performers who make a very significant positive contribution and taking none of those whose contribution is negative and who simply reduce the overall net benefit. The maths is not hard.

The issue should not really be about immigrants in general, nobody is saying (not even Farage) that highly skilled or qualified people are a problem. But why should we take in criminals, anyone who needs social housing or welfare, or low earners whose tax/NI contribution is not enough to cover their share of basic government costs?

[Euler]

It never seems to occur to some here that the overall net benefit of migrants would actually be increased by a reduction in immigration, by restricting it to high performers who make a very significant positive contribution and taking none of those whose contribution is negative and who simply reduce the overall net benefit. The maths is not hard.

The issue should not really be about immigrants in general, nobody is saying (not even Farage) that highly skilled or qualified people are a problem. But why should we take in criminals, anyone who needs social housing or welfare, or low earners whose tax/NI contribution is not enough to cover their share of basic government costs?

Many crucial staff in the NHS are low paid immigrants doing jobs that natives don't want. One day you may be glad they're around to wipe your bum, you silly old man.
Hth bidi.

[DodgyAgent]

Many crucial staff in the NHS are low paid immigrants doing jobs that natives don't want. One day you may be glad they're around to wipe your bum, you silly old man.
Hth bidi.

Which is exactly what he said

[Euler]

Which is exactly what he said

No he said we shouldn't be taking in low earners.
My point is, who would then do the fruit-picking, bum-wiping, house-and office-cleaning, elderly and social care work etc etc that, by all acounts, the locals are not interested in?

[xoggoth]

Migrants need, or will need when they get old, people to wipe their bums too. Unselective immigration simply creates its own demand. If you expand the population by x%, you will need x% more builders, x% more shops, x% more bum wipers etc. This does nothing positive for the existing population. It does a lot that is negative such as overcrowding, shortage of school places, destroying our countryside and, when migrants do not integrate as many do not, any sense of social cohesion.

There is a great inability in the pro immigration debate to acknowledge the facts of what some past immigration has given us. While Indians and Chinese have mostly been pretty positive one cannot say that of other major groups, they have worse health, are more likely to be in jail, more likely to be unemployed, occupying social housing and receive welfare than the white British. They have also given us most of the riots in the last 50 years and most of the terrorism cases since 2001.

We are still taking in some very low performing individuals and groups. We need to avoid repeating these errors and have proper controls. You like to justify low paid bum wipers but presumably even you do not justify beggars or criminals or those on welfare?

[vetran]

No he said we shouldn't be taking in low earners.
My point is, who would then do the fruit-picking, bum-wiping, house-and office-cleaning, elderly and social care work etc etc that, by all acounts, the locals are not interested in?

I would imagine the locals when the wages rise above benefit levels and workfare encourages them out.

Do you think people in lowly jobs shouldn't have a reasonable standard of living so you can pay less?

[xoggoth]

Quite. Lower skilled people should share in our nation's prosperity. We need to tackle welfare too, long term failure to do so will only mean those "hard working migrants" will eventually acquire the same attitudes. With regard to all this crap about hard working migrants doing jobs the British don't want to do, competition does not work like that. It is impossible to effect just the lazy, those who are willing will be impacted too.

Those most affected by EU migration are not the white British but the groups that immigration has given us in the past 60 years. Seem to recall we were routinely fed the same stuff about them doing the low paid jobs Brits did not want to do as well.

Rising unemployment for UK's ethnic minorities: who's affected? | News | The Guardian

[tomtomagain]

No he said we shouldn't be taking in low earners.
My point is, who would then do the fruit-picking, bum-wiping, house-and office-cleaning, elderly and social care work etc etc that, by all acounts, the locals are not interested in?

Do you not think that fruit was picked and bums wiped before 1998?

"The locals" will do it. As they did before.

Trotting out this old cliche that somehow "the locals" don't want to work, are scroungers, and work-shy is as tediously racist as Farage and his immigrants.

[Euler]

Do you not think that fruit was picked and bums wiped before 1998?

"The locals" will do it. As they did before.

Trotting out this old cliche that somehow "the locals" don't want to work, are scroungers, and work-shy is as tediously racist as Farage and his immigrants.

Don't know about bum wiping, but no, the fruit was not picked before it was easy to get EU workers (note they were trying to get foreign students to do the job):

BBC News | UK | Fruit rots as economy booms

It's an old problem.

[vetran]

Don't know about bum wiping, but no, the fruit was not picked before it was easy to get EU workers (note they were trying to get foreign students to do the job):

BBC News | UK | Fruit rots as economy booms

It's an old problem.

don't read all of it then post rubbish

The NFU said that the lack of fruit pickers in the UK is also aggravated by a shortage of foreign students available for temporary summer work.

Limits on the number of work permits issued to foreign students means growers cannot employ enough foreign students to do the picking.

you will find again and again the skill shortage that drives the demands for immigrant workers is the ability to work for much less money.