One third of British muslims "Have some sympathy for the motives of Hebdo killers"

[OnceStonedRose]

I've never been shot/blown up/beheaded by any muslim/jew/christian/aethiest

MOTWYW.

[tomtomagain]

I've never been shot/blown up/beheaded by any muslim/jew/christian/aethiest

MOTWYW.

Unless you are a medical miracle you've never been beheaded by a Muslim either.

[lilelvis2000]

Check out the figures on the feelings of Muslims being persecuted. Like through the roof. Its when groups feel marginalised that trouble happens. NI springs to mind.

[MicrosoftBob]

Check out the figures on the feelings of Muslims being persecuted. Like through the roof. Its when groups feel marginalised that trouble happens. NI springs to mind.

They didn't blow themselves up in norn though

[lilelvis2000]

They didn't blow themselves up in norn though

I think you missed the point. Unless the point is that you dislike all muslims because a few blew themselves up. Mind you I think its more than the violence that have created these issues. I am speaking of the ghettos, grooming, media portrayals.

The bit about muslims not feeling British is not surprising given that much of the media feels the same way.

I wonder what a survey on non-muslim attitudes to muslims would reveal. I'd bet for some shocking figures there too.

[xoggoth]

Its when groups feel marginalised that trouble happens

I agree. It does not help to blame all members of a any group for what some are doing. We need to make very effort to bring moderate Muslims into society in terms of jobs, representation in official positions etc.

But it is even less helpful to keep turning a blind eye to those who really are the problem, that only raises resentment. We should not deny there really is a huge problem with Islam. Terrorism is only a small part of the problem. Given the growth of the Muslim population in the West, the very significant number who think laws should be based on the supposed sayings of an 8th century figure and the high percentage of Muslim majority nations where such ludicrous principles are actually imposed, people are quite correct to feel that their future is being threatened.

The government should be tackling the extremists, ensuring that nothing contrary to the Western ethos is taught in any school and stopping further Muslim immigration except of high-contributing educated individuals who accept Western values. Perhaps we also should stop telling them what they should do in their own countries.

The UK is not a very socially mobile nation. Poorly educated, low skilled people and their children do not usually do well, it is a general problem. But if migrants find their unrealistic dreams of a better life are unfulfilled, some tend to blame us and that resentment can also lead to crime and terrorism.

We need to stop this ridiculous oversimplification of all race issues that attempt to solely blame the white British. Racism is human nature and all peoples suffer from it.

[NotAllThere]

Title of thread edited for reasons of accuracy.

[mudskipper]

Title of thread edited for reasons of accuracy.

Actually it's some sympathy with the motives of...

[SpontaneousOrder]

Actually it's some sympathy with the motives of...

Which I suspect makes the reality much less sensational that the news reports would have you believe.
I can sympathise with a persons anger for anything that I might see as unjust. That says nothing at all about what I think of how that person acted upon their anger.

Title should probably just have read: "one third of british muslims think it's naughty to draw cartoons of the prophet mohammed".

[SpontaneousOrder]

I'd say you have to believe in god for the word evil to have any meaning.

I don't think so. I know its a very common argument from the faithful folk - "where do you get your morality from if there is no god?", but presumably you (unless I misremember you not being a believer) still believe in a concept of morality?

But... maybe you think that morality does come down to rationality, in which case i agree. Rational behaviour is moral/immoral, while obeying divine commandments, or not, is considered good/evil?

I formulate (if I can use that word?) it like this:

*Morality is a man-made concept (i.e. it's not like pi or the speed of light, which are woven into the fabric of the universe).
*Therefore morality applies to men & women as man (i.e. not animals).
*Our ability to reason is what makes us more than animals, and therefore we must choose to be men (rather than human animals).
*Therefore what is good is that which is good for man qua man (the source of morality). What is bad is that which is bad for man qua man.

BUT... With that being the case a mentally 'defective' psychopath could be acting entirely rationally (for a psychopath) while acting very bad in the context of man qua man.

Therefore rationality is only moral insofar as it is good for a man - qua man - as opposed to simply a human animal. I.e. an act cannot be moral if it acts to destroy or negate the very source of morality.

Therefore, if we want a concept of morality (because we value it) then it cannot simply boil down to rationality - and we can't simply exclude people who behave irrationally from what we consider to be men (qua man), as it's just begging the question.

Therefore the terms 'good' and 'evil' are valid without needing some divine power's authority - the reality of the universe & the reality of human nature are their own authorities.