Religion

[SpontaneousOrder]

What you say holds a lot of truth- religion is not the problem, it is the way it is used for personal gain.

Religion IS the problem. if a person deliberately chooses to be an idiot, then how can anyone trust them not to do other idiotic things?

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time.

Do you also admit that as far as you are aware, you don't know whether the moon is made of cheese or not? Because it's exactly the same.

and this:

Makes me very suspicious that you don't understand how evolution works. Among other things, such as just how vast the universe is, and just how many star systems it contains.

Stars and galaxies which all came from nothing and without purpose and guidance. I assume you decided to bring yourself into existence as well?

[DodgyAgent]

Stars and galaxies which all came from nothing and without purpose and guidance. I assume you decided to bring yourself into existence as well?

Just because we cannot explain something with Science does not mean we have to turn to superstition for the answer.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Just because we cannot explain something with Science does not mean we have to turn to superstition for the answer.

Stating the legitimate and reasonable view that the universe came to existence for a purpose and our existence is not completely pointless and that we as humans are not machines (I.e a collection of cells that just function) and that the world was somehow guided to purpose (through laws which also did not just happen to exist) and that all the variables which combined to bring up about human existence are not by chance and and....

Is a philosophically, mathematically, scientifically, logical and acceptable point of view. I would say the opposite is ludicrous.

[SpontaneousOrder]

Stars and galaxies which all came from nothing

Saying that they came from nothing is a big leap. But if it's so, then why do they need to come from 'something', but God doesn't need to come from 'something'?

This is the syllogism that you're presenting:

Some things we can't understand yet.
Things we can't understand yet we say are the work of God.
Therefore 'God' is shorthand for 'we don't understand'.

When children are presented with something unfathomable, they say "I don't know".
When that child grows up a little and has been taught how to lie to itself, it says "God did it", and feels better.

and without purpose and guidance. I assume you decided to bring yourself into existence as well?

What's the obsession with purpose and guidance? You're basing your reasoning on those being some kind of a priori requirement, but don't explain why?

If I base all of my reasoning on some axiom whereby the moon is made of cheese - then I would come to all sorts of different conclusions than you do. We can't both be right, so someone's first-principles are incorrect.

[SpontaneousOrder]

Stating the legitimate and reasonable view that the universe came to existence for a purpose and our existence is not completely pointless and that we as humans are not machines (I.e a collection of cells that just function) and that the world was somehow guided to purpose (through laws which also did not just happen to exist) and that all the variables which combined to bring up about human existence are not by chance and and....

Legitimate and reasonable because you said so? What if I say it's not legitimate and reasonable - because I say so? Who's right?

Is a philosophically, mathematically, scientifically, logical and acceptable point of view.

No, it's not. On every count!. All you are doing is begging the question. Bringing God into the equation provides ZERO answers - it just hides the questions.

[DodgyAgent]

Stating the legitimate and reasonable view that the universe came to existence for a purpose and our existence is not completely pointless and that we as humans are not machines (I.e a collection of cells that just function) and that the world was somehow guided to purpose (through laws which also did not just happen to exist) and that all the variables which combined to bring up about human existence are not by chance and and....

Is a philosophically, mathematically, scientifically, logical and acceptable point of view. I would say the opposite is ludicrous.

Perhaps you would care to track back how science has proved many religious philosophies wrong and will continue to do so. For example there is a scientific explanation behind why so many people in the North have six fingers which you might be interested to know is not gods punishment nor is it witchcraft

[Batcher]

Just because we cannot explain something with Science does not mean we have to turn to superstition for the answer.

I've just agreed with DA. I'm away for a lie down...

[original PM]

At a very basic level we cannot actually prove we 'exist' in the manner we think we do.

We can say is that we hold something 'tangible' we call life to be sacred above all other things.

And yet it seems some people who have exist need to make up things which are non tangible and take life in that name.

It's all a bit strange really.

[FatLazyContractor]

FFS can someone summarize the "deep" discussion?!