I'm back people and with a new parking zone

[TinTin]

Welcome back RR !

Can I just add my pleasure in welcoming back to the forum the Rt (Wing) Hon RR from Edinburgh. Most glad to find out that rumours to his demise were indeed premature.

[AtW]

Well, a Jagdtiger is a defensive weapon... sit in a protected place and simply kill tanks 2 km away.

Same as Tiger (though Jagdpanther was better suited for this role due to lower profile and better armour) - manual for Tigers explicitly said to use them from long distances.

Wittman was great ok, I am not saying he is Beckham of tank aces, no he was real ace (pity on the other side though), but he is so well known in the west because his main victories were in the West Front, whereas much fircer fight was in the Ost Front where many other tank aces operated: remember that Wittman was shooting weak Western tanks, where as on Ost front germans had to deal with lots of much better tanks and people who were indoctrinated to crush their tanks into the enemy.

That's why I think Wittman (while great), was not the greatest tank ace of WW2.

[TinTin]

Can you stop banging on about the war ?

Alternatively, go and take part in Mastermind with your specialist subject : Soviet weaponry in WW2, FFS!

[xoggoth]

Haven't seen you for ages either TT. Don't tell me, monastery.

[TinTin]

All the good men !

Thanks Xog. Just left the abbey ! Honestly, busy with work and also no internet access at the office ('secure' environment etc). I always read your stuff and have a laugh when I can though.

[mcquiggd]

Same as Tiger (though Jagdpanther was better suited for this role due to lower profile and better armour) - manual for Tigers explicitly said to use them from long distances.

Once again, Wittman fought on many fronts, including the Russian. If he had stayed there, he probably would have had the same sort of kill ratio against Russian opponents as the Luftwaffe Aces, for example.

Earlier you mentioned a JagdTiger - basically a mobile wall of solid armour with a fecking big 88mm L71 poking out of it. Then a JagdPanther, which is only marginally less scary.... but probably better designed, due to a solid, sloping armour frontage. As you say, both were fearsome weapons to face when attacking - but, the big difference is, Wittman didn't use thse big standoff weapons, he used tactics, and got in close...

Rudel was probably his equivalent - in terms of tank busting pilots...I believe he is even credited with a very large Armoured Cruiser.


A frightening scenario - all else being equal - face Otto Skorzeny, Jochen Pieper, Michael Witmann, and Hans-Ulrich Rudel, in their 'weapons of choice'... with Erich Hartmann and his gang provding air cover... (the Ace credited with the most kills - 352 - mostly against Russians).

[AtW]

Germans had high level of team work and general strategy, their units were also of high quality, but quality can be undone by quantity, much like outsourcing

[mcquiggd]

Is that why the Russians turned to Asiatic troops to turn the tide, mmm...?

[AtW]

What asiatic troops? German attack on Moscow was saved by Siberian troops - there has always been plenty of manpower in Russia, even though Stalin did a lot to reduce it big time, but still to lose million soldiers (good 70 divisions) for Russia is usual thing, where as for any country other than China it is a complete disaster.

[mcquiggd]

The Siberian troops were recruited from Asiatic Russia... doh!