Hillsborough

[GlenW]

As already stated on this thread the authorities screwed up big time.

Agreed, but they probably didn't realise what a huge crowd of low-life scum they were getting.

[Churchill]

They had a history of acting like yobbos, see Heysel disaster only a couple of years earlier. So it's difficult to see how blame cannot be apportioned to the fans

Because until a verdict of "No blame attached to Liverpool fans" is presented they will insist on inquiry after inquiry.

[Doggy Styles]

All those people without tickets - why did they travel there?

Why were they in the crowd trying to get in?

[SueEllen]

All those people without tickets - why did they travel there?

People went to Brazil from England without tickets to see any matches.

Why were they in the crowd trying to get in?

Some probably expected to be able to get tickets from touts.

Football fans are a strange bunch.

[woohoo]

Argh

well done you.

[woohoo]

Because until a verdict of "No blame attached to Liverpool fans" is presented they will insist on inquiry after inquiry.

I think they are trying to get to the bottom of this mess.

Have a read....

BBC News - Hillsborough inquest verdicts quashed by High Court

Lord Judge said there was "deliberate misinformation surrounding the disaster".

"There has been a profound and palpable belief that justice had not been done [and] it is clear there are sound grounds for this application," he said.

He added the court wanted to "record our admiration and respect [to the families] for their determined search for the truth about the disaster and why and how it had occurred, which - despite disappointments and setbacks - has continued for nearly quarter of a century."

[darmstadt]

Spain's Thatcher square defaced by 'Brits' - The Local

[I just need to test it]

This might help some of the forum's Kelvin McKenzies Though it's quite long.

Page 2 | Home Office

Here's a sampler:

1. In 1981 before the FA Cup Semi-Final between Tottenham Hotspur and Wolverhampton Wanderers there was serious congestion at the Leppings Lane turnstiles and crushing on the confined outer concourse. It resulted in the opening of exit Gate C to relieve the crush. The disclosed documents indicate that entry into the stadium was managed by South Yorkshire Police (SYP) officers on duty and Sheffield Wednesday Football Club (SWFC) stewards.

2. What followed was a serious crush on the terraces in which many people were injured and fatalities narrowly avoided. At that time lateral fences did not divide the Leppings Lane terrace into pens, and fans were able to move sideways along the full length of the terrace; others escaped onto the perimeter track through the narrow gates in the perimeter fence.

3. The disclosed documents show that police officers located on the inner concourse, between the turnstiles and the rear of the terrace, restricted access to the central tunnel under the West Stand, diverting fans to the side access points to the terrace, thus relieving pressure at the centre. Crowd density figures available to the Panel demonstrate that the maximum capacity for the terrace was significantly exceeded.

Here's some grainy footage of the Leppings Lane during the 1981 semi.

Hillsborough 1981 - It Could have been Tottenham! - Hotspur HQ

In the next semi-final at Hillsborough in 1987 Leeds United were allocated the Leppings Lane end. There was no crush outside the ground, though once more fans were being crushed inside owing to the numbers of people packed onto the terrace.

Why didn't Leeds fans get crushed outside the ground? Because the police had set up roadblocks hence the trickle of fans into Leppings Lane was slow but steady, allowing easier entry through the turnstiles.

Here's a quote from a Liverpool fan who attended the 1988 semi-final:

FA ignored warning of crushing at 1988 semi-final - News & Comment - Football - The Independent

"The whole area was packed solid to the point where it was impossible to move and where I, and others around me, felt considerable concern for personal safety," the supporter wrote. "As a result of the crush an umbrella I was holding in my hand was snapped in half against the crush barrier in front of me… My concern over safety was such – at times it was impossible to breathe – that at half-time… I managed to extricate myself from the terrace, having taken the view that my personal safety was more important than watching the second half."

So it's pretty evident that Hillsborough wasn't so much an accident waiting to happen but an accident that happened to varying degrees in 1981, 1987, 1988 and of course in 1989.

[SueEllen]

This might help some of the forum's Kelvin McKenzies Though it's quite long.

Page 2 | Home Office

It doesn't matter.

They rather blame Liverpool fans even though not all Liverpool fans are Scousers and some of the people who died where teenage girls and OAPs, who were very unlikely to be strong enough to cause physical trouble in a group that mainly consisted of young men.

[SueEllen]

Spain's Thatcher square defaced by 'Brits' - The Local

I know lots of different people who hate but admire Thatcher at the same time.

She was intelligent enough to pay the police well and support them so they were the government's thugs when needed.