Salmond "We can take Scotland in two weeks"

[TestMangler]

You do not have enough of it to sustain your welfare state. You certainly do not have enough to build a sovereign fund. Unless taxes are cut and enterprise is stimulated the only place Scotland is going is a banana republic.

So, one one hand we have an agent, who bangs on continually about Scotland becoming a welfare state with no enterprise.

On the other, you have the leaders of all major UK political parties banging on about how the SNP's white paper only contains ONE guaranteed tax change, a reduction in corporation tax of 2 or 3p (which the agent advocated himself).

So, which one(s) of the above are talking tulipe ?

[Old Greg]

Agreed. I think the hero worship wi be very short term though. There is a strong possibility that independence may be very painful with unexpected consequences

I think that is probably true over a 5 to 10 year period, but it will probably work out long-term. Irish independence was hugely painful, with a failed rising, a war of independence and a civil war, followed by various economic hiccups, but you won't find many people who would want to go back. Scotland's independence would be much less fraught. But there will be some pain, I expect.

[eek]

I think that is probably true over a 5 to 10 year period, but it will probably work out long-term. Irish independence was hugely painful, with a failed rising, a war of independence and a civil war, followed by various economic hiccups, but you won't find many people who would want to go back. Scotland's independence would be much less fraught. But there will be some pain, I expect.

Yep except that it didn't take Ireland 10 years to recover but nearer 80

[eek]

There are more uses for oil other than petrol and diesel. The electro-Google-buggy will be handy when it can travel more that 100 miles without having to stop and recharge for 8 hours.

So when it becomes a Tesla S or for poorer contractors the model iii...

[Batcher]

You do not have enough of it to sustain your welfare state. You certainly do not have enough to build a sovereign fund. Unless taxes are cut and enterprise is stimulated the only place Scotland is going is a banana republic.

It's that attitude from down south that has brought Scotland to the brink of independence.

[Batcher]

So when it becomes a Tesla S or for poorer contractors the model iii...

Here's a list of stuff made from oil

[JustinTime]

Here's a list of stuff made from oil

I can't see Pipe Dreams on the list; shorely shome mishtake?

[Churchill]

Sir Paul Collier, Professor of Economics at the Blavatnik School of Government at Oxford University, said an independent Scotland would be entitled to only its UK population share of North Sea oil and gas revenue - 8% - and not its geographical share of 90% which the SNP Government insists it would be entitled to.

Prof Collier, who is also director at the college's Centre for the Study of African Economies and a former director of the Development Research Group at the World Bank, noted how in the 1960s Britain like almost every other country established a "very sensible" rule that when a natural resource was found, it belonged to everyone.

"Once it's found, resource-rich regions can't turn round retrospectively and say - ah, forget about that, it's ours, we're off; resource secession can't be allowed. I work in Africa, where, if this precedent was set, it would be catastrophic."

On the issue of North Sea oil and gas, he said: "Scotland is legally entitled to 8% of the UK's oil. This is not a theoretical issue; it's a very important principle in international energy law. Scotland cannot be allowed to set a precedent that elsewhere in the world would be truly dangerous."

Prof Collier cited the example of coal. "Coal is a non-renewable resource. Most of Britain's coal is in Yorkshire. The coal from Yorkshire benefited everybody in the country. The profits from Yorkshire's coal accrued to Scotland as well as Yorkshire.

"The idea that suddenly Scotland is entitled to run off, retrospectively, with oil is a dangerous precedent that will be resisted internationally because it will produce conflict and inequality in very poor countries around the world."

However, Tony McKay, an Inverness-based oil consultant, described Prof Collier's argument as "theoretical", which might have been relevant 40 years ago. Stressing he was confident that, following any Yes vote, a fair deal on oil and gas could be reached between the UK and Scottish governments, he noted that the "bulk" of the decommiss-ioning costs - removing platforms and pipelines - would be borne by an independent Scotland and not the UK.

Mr McKay added: "If the politicians can reach an agreement, it would go ahead regardless of what the legal, theoretical arguments are."

While the UK Government notes how the valuable resource is declining and price-volatile, its independent forecaster, the Office for Budget Responsibility, last month cut its revenue predictions for the next five years by nearly £3 billion.

For 2016/17, the year the First Minister hopes to declare independence, the OBR now predicts revenues of £3.2bn; this contrasts with the Scottish Government's most cautious estimate for the same year of £6.8bn.

In total, the SNP administration expects at least £34.6bn in North Sea taxes between now and 2017/18; the OBR puts them at £18.8bn.

Oil tax revenues are assigned to the United Kingdom Continental Shelf, an economic region in its own right.

Professor Alex Kemp, of Aberdeen University, a leading expert on the oil industry, has suggested the so-called "median line principle" is the obvious one to use in any post-independence negotiations.

This is the equidistant line used when the North Sea was divided up between the UK and its neighbours 50 years ago and it was used to determine the fisheries boundary between Scotland and the rest of the UK following the establishment of devolution in 1999.

However, in complex negotiations, which Defence Secretary Philip Hammond earlier this month made clear meant "everything will be on the table", assumptions cannot be made.

[Flashman]

Worst case scenario. No vote narrowly win. Scots continue to whine. Devomax to Scotland. More handouts without responsibility. Yup that and that what's going to happen. mad

[TestMangler]

Just to lighten the mood:

If you type "Adolf Hitler was a c**t" into Google, with the quotes, you get 4 hits.

If you type "David Cameron is a c**t" into Google, with the quotes, you get 21,300 hits.

Fact