Why does evolution matter?

[xoggoth]

Would it be OK to teach intelligent falling as science? There is no gravity but God pushes things to the Earth?

That might be slightly different since gravity is a factor in our lives. Somebody who believed that might be tempted to believe that faith or prayer could change the result of gravity, with obvious consequences. I am not suggesting that rejecting science or logic in general would not be a huge problem, just suggesting that there is no problem not going with science on a matter of purely academic interest.

I would certainly object to teaching kids that our laws and lives should be defined by some nonsense in a holy book, but belief in how life came about is of no real consequence. We don't tell people they must not believe god created the universe.

[xoggoth]

Why is it important to you to assert that it doesn't matter? It sounds as though you have some kind of preference for truth over falsehood?

??? Zero score from my CUK post logic analyser again.

[NotAllThere]

Why does anything matter? Do I matter? Do you matter?

Even if it does matter, does it matter that it matters? Zutel-wortle, zutel-wortle, zutel-wortle.

The theory of the evolution of species probably doesn't matter much; but evolution covers rather more than that. Evolutionary principles can be applied to many different areas, with interesting predictions that are born out.

Creationism is found on religious dogma and a particular interpretation of the various scriptures. It doesn't produce anything that benefits anyeone. Creationism exists solely as a foil against evolutionary theory, and it fails.

[jmo21]

Watching a Channel 4 thing about extremist schools last night, Muslim, Jewish and Christian, and it was big deal that some were teaching creationism.

There are some things they should certainly not be teaching but why does a belief in creationism matter? Apart from the tiny few who look for jobs at natural history museums, it has no relevance to life whatever. It may be rubbish but it is no more harmful than, say, belief in ghosts or faith healing.

Seems to me that some people treat atheism or science as religion, requiring people to believe in them even when it does not really matter.

People are free to believe whatever bulltulip they like, it just shouldn't be taught as fact in schools.

[SpontaneousOrder]

??? Zero score from my CUK post logic analyser again.

What i'm saying is that you almost certainly have disagreements with people every day about what it correct or incorrect. Why? Lets say you mention that a particular car on tTV does 60mpg, and your pal says it's only 40. You'll probably insist that he's wrong. Why? why insist when it doesn't really matter?

More importantly, do you want your kids being taught lies? And do you want them being taught lies which cause them to abandon their trust in their own perception of reality and their own faculty of reason?

If a child believes in magical sky fairies, then what's to say that they should also believe in the laws of physics? Whats to say that they should believe that 2 + 2 = 4?

What's to say that they shouldn't believe that if they blow themselves up god will be pleased and reward them with 70 virgins?

What's to say that they shouldn't believe that god will be pleased if they kill all the gays, and reward them in the kingdom of heaven?

What's to say that your kid shouldn't defer the enjoyment of their life, in favour of piety to be rewarded after they die?

How is your child to achieve real joy from his life, through the self-pride that comes from productive labour and the rational application of his values, when the world is a magical and mysterious place where voodoo triumphs and human achievement through the application of reason is relegated to circumstance & the whim of the fates?

A lie is a lie, and like Stevie Wonder said - one white one turns into a black one!

[xoggoth]

Logic analyser 100%.

Ok, I see what you saying now. Fair point, that children should always be taught what, given current information and according to logic, is the most likely explanation. It may not be just about single issues in isolation but a way of thinking. Can somebody who believes in irrational explanations and rejects logic on one issue, be relied upon to apply logic to other situations?

[SpontaneousOrder]

Actually I think you have rather changed my mind. It may not be just about single issues in isolation but a way of thinking. Can somebody who believes in irrational explanations and rejects logic on one issue, be relied upon to apply logic to other situations?

This is why Richard Dawkins compares raising a child to be religious with child abuse. The language is inflammatory, but his point is that you are damaging that child's mind and it may take decades to be fixed, if ever.

We want the best possible for our children, and by teaching them to subjugate their reason (their only tool to live in the world as men) to fantasy can achieve nothing other than to limit their potential.

Don't want to come across too didactic, but I think it's important.

[xoggoth]

Think SO has won on this one. Excellent.

Should we ban religious education entirely? By religious education I mean the teaching of rigid ideas that all things are explained and all man's behaviour should be dictated by the saying of this or that prophet, messiah or holy text.

Not saying we should not explore various explanations of existence as there are many things that science has not proven. There is a grey area between philosophy and religion at times. The fact that the "proofs" one sees advanced for the existence of god are bollox is not in itself a proof that he does not. If adults want to take up some faith then that is a matter of personal freedom but should we impose beliefs on children?

[SpontaneousOrder]

Think SO has won on this one. Excellent.

Should we ban religious education entirely?

I think that's shaky ground to be on. I'm not in favour of banning anything at all unless it involves violating someone's right to live free from aggression.

Lets imagine that we some day got to the stage where 99% of people were sane and didn't believe in all of that nonsense - in that case we could make our disdain for such things apparent, and any kids who are unfortunate enough to be raised that way will inescapably be exposed to the truth in such an overwhelming way that I don't think we need to consider outlawing teachings.

Carrot beats stick in my mind.

[Troll]

Please explain the Cambrian Explosion in terms of evolution