Apparently there is a public sector strike going on...

[vetran]

Do they even know what it means?

Do they even care?

They are the customer they want a product that works, their survey suggests 85% of them think its doesn't or needs improving. Is it any wonder they are going to competitor?

[Mich the Tester]

Well, I went to private schools and although I have some concerns about the boarding experience, I can certainly see that I gained some real advantages from the academic side of it, and the sporting and activities side of it. But were the teachers that I admire and who helped me along being measured all the time by some great state institution of measurers, inspectors and controllers? I don't think so; the schools ran on reputation, not state interference. There's an advantage; the good teachers were a mix of trained teachers, academics, athletes and artists; the schools had a lot more freedom than state schools in who they hired, so when one of my schools hired a head of PE and sports, they hired an ex olympic runner who had a deep theoretical and practical understanding of sport and a passion for his subject; however he didn't have a teaching qualification or a degree, which would be required in a state school. Some teachers were frankly clueless, or worse, downright strange in ugly ways, but did have teaching qualifications; I'm not suggesting that teaching qualifications are bad or good, but suggesting that a school where the governors and head know the kids, know the area where they work and the people they're serving are better placed to make many decisions than some central bureaucracy.

Also, employers should be careful about what they ask for when they criticise education. Employers want this, employers want that; understandable seeing as employers are likely to want maximum profit from minimal effort or investment. But do they really know what they need? Trouble is, education is not simply about gaining employment later in life. It's also about learning to take part in a society that is about much more than economics alone. I think there's a real danger in reforming education or setting up all sorts of measurements simply to satisfy employers; you get homo economicus, a sort of drone that is purely economically productive, and not someone who can play some important role in society. How about this; if young employees are literate, then they might well read books on how do do well in business, or how to code Java brilliantly; they might also read books on how to cause disruption, how to organise political protest, how to undermine authority. If they're good at maths and the sciences then they might also be good at punching great holes in the 'logic' of management in which many employers trust.

Employers are important stakeholders in education, but they aren't the only stakeholders and I'd even contend that they aren't the most important stakeholders in education.

[vetran]

Stop blaming the teachers for not teaching when it is the kids who are not learning which is the problem.

A bad workman hey?

Have you ever done any youth work?

The number of children that are truly bad is very small. The vast majority are just misguided or misused. I have seen kids screwed up turned around by great leadership, I was one of the helpers so you can't credit the assistants with any competence.

The teachers get them for a large part of their time. If they can't identify the issues with each one and put in action plans they are obviously incompetent.

My eldest goes to an Academy, it is based on the grounds of a previously terrible council school. The kids are the same from the same estates but most of the teachers were moved on. The Academy is doing great by all measures.

not sure what more evidence you need?

[Mich the Tester]

I would hope so - they are the experts on what schools should be teaching, after all.

Some people do seem to believe that ejumakation is all about pleasing employers; I've said a few things about that in a longer and slightly unstructured post.

[Mich the Tester]

I think what the CBI wants is basic maths and decent english and high aspirations. If kids have got these they can do anything

Do they really want all kids to have high aspirations? What do they mean by high aspirations?

[DodgyAgent]

Well, I went to private schools and although I have some concerns about the boarding experience, I can certainly see that I gained some real advantages from the academic side of it, and the sporting and activities side of it. But were the teachers that I admire and who helped me along being measured all the time by some great state institution of measurers, inspectors and controllers? I don't think so; the schools ran on reputation, not state interference. There's an advantage; the good teachers were a mix of trained teachers, academics, athletes and artists; the schools had a lot more freedom than state schools in who they hired, so when one of my schools hired a head of PE and sports, they hired an ex olympic runner who had a deep theoretical and practical understanding of sport and a passion for his subject; however he didn't have a teaching qualification or a degree, which would be required in a state school. Some teachers were frankly clueless, or worse, downright strange in ugly ways, but did have teaching qualifications; I'm not suggesting that teaching qualifications are bad or good, but suggesting that a school where the governors and head know the kids, know the area where they work and the people they're serving are better placed to make many decisions than some central bureaucracy.

Also, employers should be careful about what they ask for when they criticise education. Employers want this, employers want that; understandable seeing as employers are likely to want maximum profit from minimal effort or investment. But do they really know what they need? Trouble is, education is not simply about gaining employment later in life. It's also about learning to take part in a society that is about much more than economics alone. I think there's a real danger in reforming education or setting up all sorts of measurements simply to satisfy employers; you get homo economicus, a sort of drone that is purely economically productive, and not someone who can play some important role in society. How about this; if young employees are literate, then they might well read books on how do do well in business, or how to code Java brilliantly; they might also read books on how to cause disruption, how to organise political protest, how to undermine authority. If they're good at maths and the sciences then they might also be good at punching great holes in the 'logic' of management in which many employers trust.

Employers are important stakeholders in education, but they aren't the only stakeholders and I'd even contend that they aren't the most important stakeholders in education.

The private school model works brilliantly

[TheFaQQer]

Do they even care?

They are the customer they want a product that works, their survey suggests 85% of them think its doesn't or needs improving. Is it any wonder they are going to competitor?

That's not what your post says. It says

Firms want primary schools to focus on developing literacy and numeracy (85%) with around one-third not satisfied with these skills among school leavers.

It does NOT say that 85% think it doesn't meet their needs. It does NOT say that 85% think it needs improving.

[TheFaQQer]

The private school model works brilliantly

And if any government should know the importance of spending £10k a year on each pupil, it's this one.

[Mich the Tester]

The private school model works brilliantly

Parts of the model work brilliantly for many young people, yes. But not all of it. It could be used to provide pointers for improving state education, but you have to be careful with your expectations; one very important part of the model is the parents and the upbringing they give their kids. My mum started teaching me to read when I was about two and a half; I've heard education 'experts', or teachers saying 'impossible; a child's brain is not ready for that at age two'. My mum was a teacher by the way.

[Mich the Tester]

And if any government should know the importance of spending £10k a year on each pupil, it's this one.

10k won´t buy much in the private system though.