Ipse Welcomes - government “historic lifeline to contractors”

[wattaj]

Good update from ipse on twitter

Linky?

[mudskipper]

https://twitter.com/AndyIPSE/status/1243460870858047489

[Andy Hallett]

And here is the truth:

3. This is the big one. If Ltd Co contractors had been included in the package we would have lost the IR35 argument FOREVER. If you don't believe me look at what the Chancellor said about sole trader national insurance rates the announcement

You are either running a business or you are not.

And before anyone gets on their high horse, I started my Consultancy as a Limited Company on 3rd March. I understand and accept the risks and rewards of running a business.

[cojak]

https://twitter.com/AndyIPSE/status/1243460870858047489

Yep - a good response.

[wattaj]

Good update from ipse on twitter

https://twitter.com/AndyIPSE/status/1243460870858047489

Thanks. Interesting.

[cojak]

And here is the truth:

3. This is the big one. If Ltd Co contractors had been included in the package we would have lost the IR35 argument FOREVER. If you don't believe me look at what the Chancellor said about sole trader national insurance rates the announcement

You are either running a business or you are not.

And before anyone gets on their high horse, I started my Consultancy as a Limited Company on 3rd March. I understand and accept the risks and rewards of running a business.

+1.

[eek]

Compare and contrast from Andy's tweets

1. There was absolutely no way he was going to consider 'replacing' dividend income in the same way as he has 'replaced' earned income. He says dividends are primarily a return on investments. We argued, he firmly rejected the point

So at this moment they were happy to throw us under the bridge as IPSE hadn't thought things through

3. This is the big one. If Ltd Co contractors had been included in the package we would have lost the IR35 argument FOREVER. If you don't believe me look at what the Chancellor said about sole trader national insurance rates the announcement

but it's OK as the Chancellor protected IPSE from themselves.

[Glencky]

Interesting thread, and thanks for the link to Twitter. The argument laid out by IPSE does make sense in terms of the position they have taken.

I thought some of you might be darkly amused and/or even smug to consider my own circumstances..!

I have chosen to operate inside IR35 since I started contracting c.7 years ago, broadly for ethical reasons, and secondarily with a strong eye on the IR35 changes that even when I set up, I guessed were to come (the only thing that has surprised me is that they weren't implemented sooner - at least, in the private sector).

As of a month ago, I was frustrated by the volatility in the contracting market caused by the then-upcoming changes, and also frustrated by the likelihood of being 'forced' to work through an umbrella and losing all the flexibility I have always had running my own business even though I was running inside IR35. But that was the extent of the disruption for me. I built up my savings buffer and aimed to get an inside contract in due course. Current contract ends early April and I was planning a few months off over the summer (chunks of time off being one of the main reasons I contract) and then look for something after that. For me there was even the chance I might get an outside IR35 role which would ironically have put me in a better place financially to where I'd been operating. But if not, loss of flexibility and increase in hassle from umbrella company, but not a massive financial hit (loss of flexibility on pensions being the main down side for me).

Obviously with COVID much has changed. The first thing was that I have been offered - and accepted, because who wants big chunks of time off whilst stuck inside! - a short extension partly as a result of it. That's good, as it'll get me some income in the new financial year, which is of disproportionate benefit to me.

But now when I look at the situation based on the support packages rolled out by the government, just like everyone who has deemed their contracts outside IR35 for the last years, I cannot take advantage of the '80% of employment income' package by furloughing myself, and I am not self employed so can't take advantage of that anyway. But even if I did, due to operating inside IR35, my company has had less than £10k profit left in it every year (because operating inside IR35 you naturally take all the profits out as salary) so if I got 80% of something it would be far below the £2.5k cap!

In other words, I have behaved at all times the way HMRC apparently 'wanted' me to. I have assessed my contracts as inside IR35, operated inside IR35 and made most of my turnover as salary. And now that this has happened, I am neither given the assistance provided to self employed people, nor to the employed.

Or at least, that's how I'm understanding it. I have to admit I haven't gone into this in great detail because I'm not intending to try and claim anything.

I appreciate I'm in the minority but I know there are others in my situation - around 5-10% I've always guesstimated based on the very unscientific method of 'what I've gleaned from other contractors I've worked with'.

If you want to talk about 'unfair' then that's it!

However, it's a 'smallest violin in the world playing just for me' type situation. The reason I'm not attempting to claim anything is because I'm hyper aware that I'm in a much, much better situation than the vast majority of the UK public at this time.

[wattaj]

...If you want to talk about 'unfair' then that's it!

Yup, that's pretty unfair. You have my sympathies.

[eek]

However, it's a 'smallest violin in the world playing just for me' type situation. The reason I'm not attempting to claim anything is because I'm hyper aware that I'm in a much, much better situation than the vast majority of the UK public at this time.

It may be the smallest violin in the world but it's justification for binning the IR35 reforms once and for all. Yes we pay less tax but we also get and got zero support when it is and was given to absolutely everyone else...