Work permit for temporary posting to France

**Eirikur** · 6 June 2014, 07:55

Originally posted by ukCon View Post

Hi

I'm an Australian national, residing in the UK on a Tier5 Youth Mobility Visa. An UK agency has proposed a 6mths contract that involves working 3days in London and 2days in Paris. The contractual arrangement will be something like: Me -> My UK Ltd Company -> UK Agency -> Client. I would like to emphasise that I will be contracted to a UK firm and posted out to France temporarily as opposed to working for firm in France directly.

I do not need a visa to enter France (short term < 90 days total) but will I need a work permit?

This (Temporary posting of workers in France) suggests that as long as I am employed by a UK firm and have the right to work/reside in the UK then I do not need a work permit for France on a temporary posting there.

Can anyone advise whether or not I will need a work permit?

Thanks

The website of the French government says you do, but you don't believe them and you ask a bunch of anonymous people on the internet???

**eek** · 6 June 2014, 07:59

Originally posted by ukCon View Post

Hi

I'm an Australian national, residing in the UK on a Tier5 Youth Mobility Visa. An UK agency has proposed a 6mths contract that involves working 3days in London and 2days in Paris. The contractual arrangement will be something like: Me -> My UK Ltd Company -> UK Agency -> Client. I would like to emphasise that I will be contracted to a UK firm and posted out to France temporarily as opposed to working for firm in France directly.

I do not need a visa to enter France (short term < 90 days total) but will I need a work permit?

This (Temporary posting of workers in France) suggests that as long as I am employed by a UK firm and have the right to work/reside in the UK then I do not need a work permit for France on a temporary posting there.

Can anyone advise whether or not I will need a work permit?

Thanks

You may be able to get away with it for a while but I doubt that the French will be happy with your 8th journey in as many weeks.

Personally I would keep job hunting as I think you may eventually find yourself on a 1 way trip from Paris to Australia...

**stek** · 6 June 2014, 08:09

Won't work unless your company has a French presence which your limited won't have.

**BlasterBates** · 6 June 2014, 08:38

I think it might work because the client (the agency is irrelevant) is UK based. Provided that is the case I think you can do this.

What would not work would be contracting out to a French client even if through a UK agency.

The important point is that your income is from a UK based client and these are UK expenses.

This would be the same rule that would allow a UK company to send his employee over for a few weeks.

What a UK company can't do is to send an employee to work in France for the French subsiduary if it is expensed out for the French company, i.e. the French company pay for the employee. This is what a tax lawyer told me (good the rule was in Germany, but the same rules apply everywhere, as he informed me)

However if you really want to know you need to talk to an accountant. This is "expert" stuff. In the end I don't really know but it might work.

With the complexity involved I would tempted to turn it down if I were you.

**ukCon** · 6 June 2014, 10:19

Thanks for the replies.

Actually the end client is a French firm who has a presence (subsidiary?) in the UK. So effectively I will be working partly for their UK subsidiary and their French head office but paid via my UK Ltd/UK agency.

It's just that I keep getting different responses from the French authorities, which makes it sound like even they don't know what the ruling should be so I came here to see if anyone has any real life experiences.

I would have consulted an immigration expert on this it's just that I didn't want to shell out the expense whilst it's still in these preliminary stages :/

Cheers

**BlasterBates** · 6 June 2014, 15:33

Originally posted by ukCon View Post

Thanks for the replies.

Actually the end client is a French firm who has a presence (subsidiary?) in the UK. So effectively I will be working partly for their UK subsidiary and their French head office but paid via my UK Ltd/UK agency.

It's just that I keep getting different responses from the French authorities, which makes it sound like even they don't know what the ruling should be so I came here to see if anyone has any real life experiences.

I would have consulted an immigration expert on this it's just that I didn't want to shell out the expense whilst it's still in these preliminary stages :/

Cheers

If the agency is only billing the UK subsiduary this is where it might be OK.

Once invoices with your name on it end up on the French books makes it seriously dodgy.

The reason why the French authorities won't give you a clear answer is that they don't have enough information. You are not an employee of the UK company. You are running your own company.

If you want to be really really legal then you need to drop the idea, because you're not allowed to run a French business. If this contract goes on for months you will be running a serious risk,

My advice, drop the idea, surely you can find other contracts in the UK, or tell the UK subsiduary you can only work in the UK and make only odd business visits to France.

Cross border business is horribly complex, and you won't get a straight legal answer unless you go to a French legal expert, this is far too complicated to get a straight answer on a forum.

**stek** · 6 June 2014, 15:46

And as a Aussie the op has no right to work in France.

**eek** · 6 June 2014, 15:49

Originally posted by stek View Post

And as a Aussie the op has no right to work in France.

Don't let facts spoil Blasterbates' intent to give inappropriate inaccurate advice.

As I said earlier I doubt the work and payment side is the real issue. Eventually on the 4th/5th/8th week in a row France will want to know why the OP is visiting weekly correctly guess and send him back never to return.

**BlasterBates** · 6 June 2014, 17:02

Originally posted by eek View Post

Don't let facts spoil Blasterbates' intent to give inappropriate inaccurate advice.

As I said earlier I doubt the work and payment side is the real issue. Eventually on the 4th/5th/8th week in a row France will want to know why the OP is visiting weekly correctly guess and send him back never to return.

As the French authorities have already indicated to the OP you can under certain circumstances work if you've been seconded, and there is a variant of this for the self-employed, eg

http://www.acv-online.be/Images/Deta...cm9-284556.pdf

Persons who carry out a self-employed activity in another EU
country may work temporarily in Belgium in the context of a
secondment. Self-employed are not subject to the authority of
an employer. They are their own boss, define the quantity of
work they carry out or how much they want to earn and are
subject to another tax system.

And I have spoken to a tax lawer on this issue. Where expenses are booked is crucial as to where you can do this.

A colleague of mine with his own Ltd worked in Switzerland for a couple of months based on this very principle. He didn't have to register his Ltd as he was expensed out by the UK bank (it was a Swiss bank). All perfectly above board.

Work permit for temporary posting to France