First gig - general advice

[GillsMan]

Do what you are told and not what you think you should do.

If you think X is better than Y and the client has told you to do Y then do Y. I write code, I do the work I am allocated. I don't care if the big picture falls apart as long as what I have done works as requested.

Don't agree with this at all to be honest. As I said earlier, I try to give the client what they need, not what they want. Frequently the client thinks they want X or Y or Z, but they don't have the benefit of my experience or expertise - which is why they are engaging me - and so I will often try to guide them to the correct outcome.

I'm not a coder, so maybe it's different when you're writing code, but even then I'd have thought you'd be in a position to challenge client expectations/demands, if you know that X is better than Y.

[SueEllen]

Do what you are told and not what you think you should do.

If you think X is better than Y and the client has told you to do Y then do Y. I write code, I do the work I am allocated. I don't care if the big picture falls apart as long as what I have done works as requested.

Don't agree.

If the client or consultancy has hired you for the end-client, and you are more than a bum on seat then you need to be proactive. If you see a screw up or a potential one unlike the consultancy who makes money by milking the client tell the client, document it using email and encourage them to mitigate that risk.

However you need to chose your battles carefully. Something that will lose the client business due to it effecting their customers is worth fighting if you have the domain knowledge. Something that will not lose them business but will make your life awkward i.e. the random development methodology they chose to go with isn't.

I've been on several contracts now where the external contractors have been kept on even though the original consultancy who had the task was got rid off. (In fact there are clients I've refused to go back to.)

Do not be adversarial with your agent. It gets you nowhere.

Not strictly true either.

Agents work by bullying you need to stand up to them when they are being completely unreasonable. If you want to know if your agent is being unreasonable the search facility on this forum is a good place to start.

[MyUserName]

Nope, I stand by do what you are told.

If I am given a task to do then I will do it to the best of my ability, that is what I am there for (in my case, write C++ code). If it is not the best thing for the project then that is none of my business unless my contact says that it is.

If I start taking control and direction of the project then I am stepping out of my contract and into IR35 territory.

If people want me to take ownership of the project then they can change my contract to include it.

As for the person who neg repped me saying that this is permie thinking I think that to rise above your given job to take on more control and responsibility is permie thinking rather than just sticking to the job defined in your contract (which is surely more like a contractor's way of thinking?).

Agents work by bullying you need to stand up to them when they are being completely unreasonable. If you want to know if your agent is being unreasonable the search facility on this forum is a good place to start.

You can (and should) do this without being adversarial.

[rhino6]

ok i have just been down the same path, started my first contract, and now coming to the end. originally it was a one month contract with potential to extend to three, by Christmas eve (my last day) it will be six months contract.

i was brought in to perform anything related to IT engineer, in fact i performed that and above the role taking on additional work when possible, interacted well within the team and sub teams within the company. all i can say is be yourself, do the job that you have been brought in to do and you should be fine. just remember there is good and bad in every type of thing in life you have to work out why your here and what you want to do. me i have been a perm for many years and was tossed out like a bit of waste via redundancy route over internal politics and was still required by the customer as SME. so for many years i wondered about the contracting arena and i'm glad i have made the move to present date as really enjoyed this role and looking forward to securing another role in the near future ! Good luck on your role and for the first couple of days it takes to mix in and understand what the requirements are, then you should be away and firing on all cylinders so to speak..

[SueEllen]

Nope, I stand by do what you are told.

If I am given a task to do then I will do it to the best of my ability, that is what I am there for (in my case, write C++ code). If it is not the best thing for the project then that is none of my business unless my contact says that it is.

If I start taking control and direction of the project then I am stepping out of my contract and into IR35 territory.

If people want me to take ownership of the project then they can change my contract to include it.

The problem here is not everyone is a coder who is given unquestionable tasks to do.

If your role is just that then your role may as well be outsourced to some where cheaper.

Some contractors are hired to deliver working software that the client isn't initially sure what they actually want.

[MyUserName]

The problem here is not everyone is a coder who is given unquestionable tasks to do.

If your role is just that then your role may as well be outsourced to some where cheaper.

Some contractors are hired to deliver working software that the client isn't initially sure what they actually want.

Possibly but the point stands that if you are contracted to do something then pushing using yourself into the strategic level above is for permies, not contractors.

You just do what your contract says you are there to do. Anything else is asking for IR35 issues.

I am allocated tasks appropriate to contract and I do them the way I think is best - it is not my place to strategically guide the project or, for example, put work into explaining that we could offer to integrate our product with part of our competitors rater than writing our own (other than suggest in passing to a manager).

If they want me to do that we can sign a new contract covering it.

[Contreras]

Sorry but I have to disagree with much of what you said as well.

Do what you are told and not what you think you should do.

If you think X is better than Y and the client has told you to do Y then do Y. I write code, I do the work I am allocated. I don't care if the big picture falls apart as long as what I have done works as requested.

Nope, I stand by do what you are told.

If I am given a task to do then I will do it to the best of my ability, that is what I am there for (in my case, write C++ code). If it is not the best thing for the project then that is none of my business unless my contact says that it is.

Whoa, be careful there. Ideally you would be told what need to be delivered, not how to deliver it. What you are advocating falls somewhere between those points and the sentiment is far too close to the later for my liking.

If I start taking control and direction of the project then I am stepping out of my contract and into IR35 territory.

No. IR35 is about the client's D&C over you, not the other way around.

You're an independent professional and expert advice is one of your services, so if they are asking for something that can't be delivered then it's expected for you to offer an opinion (just be diplomatic because, actually, they might not be expecting it ) and in no way is this stepping outside of the contract.

You just do what your contract says you are there to do. Anything else is asking for IR35 issues.

I am allocated tasks appropriate to contract and I do them the way I think is best - it is not my place to strategically guide the project or, for example, put work into explaining that we could offer to integrate our product with part of our competitors rater than writing our own (other than suggest in passing to a manager).

Semantics maybe (again), but you do seem to be verging on a "contract of service" rather than a "contract for services" and a just a tad perverse to justify it on IR35 grounds.

If IR35 concerns you then ideally your contract schedule would state specific, measurable, clearly defined deliverables - not a generic "C++ software programming", or whatever it is you do.

Note to the OP: hopefully some good advice in this thread. Have a browse through old threads on this board and the Welcome board. You'll note that a lot (most?) of threads descend to a discussion of IR35 at some point.

[GillsMan]

As for the person who neg repped me saying that this is permie thinking I think that to rise above your given job to take on more control and responsibility is permie thinking rather than just sticking to the job defined in your contract (which is surely more like a contractor's way of thinking?).

Fair point. I'd made an assumption that most of us are consultants, and it therefore goes with the territory that we are expected to give consultative advice, even if it's not explicitly stated in our contracts.

I accept, however, that some of our posters are given an extremely defined piece of work to do, and they are there to do that and nothing else. I accept that in your situation, you are not a consultant at all, and are strictly a coder.

My point stands for those of us who are consultants in any way shape or form, that you should challenge the client's expectations if you know that they are going down the wrong path.

Code monkeys are free to keep their head down and deliver just what they are asked to do (I still think the best thing to do is to flag any potential problems you spot, but there you go).

[cojak]

My point stands for those of us who are consultants in any way shape or form, that you should challenge the client's expectations if you know that they are going down the wrong path.

Once. Otherwise...

Finally, remember that you aren't an employee of the client, and you aren't a consultant backed by a big company. My first gig got canned because I couldn't keep my mouth shut - permie was wrong, and I was right. I told them this. They argued it, and escalated it, and I fought my corner. In the end, I was canned because I was the contractor - being proved right a few months later when they went live and it all fell apart as I predicted it would was no consolation for being out of work. If I'd still been working for a consultancy, I suspect they would have listened and responded; because I worked for myself, it was a whole different ball-game.

Always remember that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Don't let your ego get in the way of invoicing.

[psychocandy]

Try and fit in and be nice. Try and be a member of the team who just happens to be a contractor.

No client likes contractors who don't fit in and/or upset the permies. (i.e so dont tell them how much you earn!)