Reply to: First gig - general advice

[SueEllen]

There's a big difference between fitting in as a member of the team / project and being part of the furniture and a disguised employee.

If you don't fit with what the client needs, then you will end up with the safest IR35 position possible. Not having a contract removes the IR35 risk completely.

WHS

[DirtyDog]

Try and fit in and be nice. Try and be a member of the team who just happens to be a contractor.

IR35 ALERT

There's a big difference between fitting in as a member of the team / project and being part of the furniture and a disguised employee.

If you don't fit with what the client needs, then you will end up with the safest IR35 position possible. Not having a contract removes the IR35 risk completely.

[psychocandy]

IR35 ALERT

Alternatively, stroll around like you own the place, don't even speak to the permies, make sure everyone knows how different you are, refuse to do anything thats not in your contract.

NO CONTRACT ALERT!

[PurpleGorilla]

Fantastic advice;

Be yourself
Head down and get stuck in
Deliver something
Work out the structure, team, mgt
Time sheet a priority
Keep quite about £££
Try to fit in
Don't be a problem, be a potential solution
Keep the extension/next contract on the scope

Thanks :-)

[BigRed]

Try and fit in and be nice. Try and be a member of the team who just happens to be a contractor.

IR35 ALERT

[MyUserName]

I cannot really comment on your situation wrt HMRC. If you think it is fine then it probably is, it sounds reasonable to me.

Possibly, I phrased my initial post poorly. Perhaps a better way of saying it might be "provide consultancy on all aspects of exactly what you are contracted to do and nothing more".

However, it sounds like positions other than programming might work differently which I was not aware of.

[GillsMan]

Indeed but only about what you are there to do. When I am, for example, asked to write a utility so a customer can do something. I write it in whatever way I think is best, I am happy to provide consultancy about it and give advice. However, if I think that the client is making a mistake in it's overall technical strategy then that is none of my business, I am not contracted to give advice on other aspects of the business.

I just cannot imagine HMRC not sinking it's teeth into you if they speak to your client contact and ask about your work and find out you have been doing other additional duties which are not in your contract, surely this is you becoming part and parcel of the organisation?

I guess I do not really know how other roles in other contract industries work, I assumed it was similar to the way contract programming works perhaps I am mistaken?

In general, I agree with parts of that. I do think it's different in terms of what we're talking about. Your original post suggested a "head's down and deliver what they ask for approach". My post probably suggested a little bit too much of "deliver what [you think] they need, not what want". I should have clarified, and Cojak and Bunk have made good points on this theme:

I'm not advocating doing what you want. But sometimes a client will tell me that they want their system to be configured to do XYZ. As a consultant with expertise, I would advise them that actually doing what they want will cause certain problems down the line. However, if they can consider doing ABC, they will avoid these future problems. If the client agrees, great, if they disagree no problem, I'll document the approach, pros and cons of each, and deliver what they asked for.

Onto your point about IR35, I feel comfortable, as the end goal is always the same for me. So I'm brought in to help implement an LMS. Or to relaunch an LMS, or deliver some e-learning. But along the way, I try to guide what they are asking for. End result is still the same = LMS is implemented, or relaunched, or e-learning is developed.

I doubt HMRC would have issue with this approach.

[MyUserName]

Didn't read back 4 pages but has anyone suggest the OP reads the Basic Advice sticky?

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...-business.html

Erm ... yes of course we did. What kind of fool would overlook that?

[Sausage Surprise]

You already know.

• Define what is 'capable' from the client's point of view, learn fast.
• Discover how you can 'add value' to the client - what do they need? Why did they engage you?
• Expect to deliver 'something' (a bit of the need) by the end of the 1st week (at the latest).

Don't expect to be spoon-fed by the client - that's a permie trait. Be self-sufficient and find out stuff yourself.

I always try to do this, be it a plan, strategy or just a signed off set of requirements.

[northernladuk]

Didn't read back 4 pages but has anyone suggest the OP reads the Basic Advice sticky?

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...-business.html

[northernladuk]

Try and fit in and be nice. Try and be a member of the team who just happens to be a contractor.

No client likes contractors who don't fit in and/or upset the permies. (i.e so dont tell them how much you earn!)

...and try and put a professional head on. These are your clients now, not your employers. Don't moan about them constantly. It will show in your attitude when are around them eventually.

[lukemg]

Try and fit in and be nice. Try and be a member of the team who just happens to be a contractor.

No client likes contractors who don't fit in and/or upset the permies. (i.e so dont tell them how much you earn!)

yep - WHS x10 hugely important this, keep your head down at first, till you are sure you know how the place fits together. nothing worse than someone shouting the odds from day one. It's normal social patterns but some IT people just cant help themselves...

[DirtyDog]

Once. Otherwise...


Always remember that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Don't let your ego get in the way of invoicing.

I'd go as far as doing it twice.

Explain once, and get it noted. If rejected, explain a second time with a clearer outline of the issues involved in going one way over the other. If still rejected then go with what they ask for and have that plan B on how to get them out of the hole.

[MyUserName]

Try and fit in and be nice. Try and be a member of the team who just happens to be a contractor.

No client likes contractors who don't fit in and/or upset the permies. (i.e so dont tell them how much you earn!)

+1!!! This is hugely important IMHO.

[MyUserName]

Fair point. I'd made an assumption that most of us are consultants, and it therefore goes with the territory that we are expected to give consultative advice, even if it's not explicitly stated in our contracts.

Indeed but only about what you are there to do. When I am, for example, asked to write a utility so a customer can do something. I write it in whatever way I think is best, I am happy to provide consultancy about it and give advice. However, if I think that the client is making a mistake in it's overall technical strategy then that is none of my business, I am not contracted to give advice on other aspects of the business.

I just cannot imagine HMRC not sinking it's teeth into you if they speak to your client contact and ask about your work and find out you have been doing other additional duties which are not in your contract, surely this is you becoming part and parcel of the organisation?

I guess I do not really know how other roles in other contract industries work, I assumed it was similar to the way contract programming works perhaps I am mistaken?

If IR35 concerns you then ideally your contract schedule would state specific, measurable, clearly defined deliverables - not a generic "C++ software programming", or whatever it is you do.

Appreciate the concern [no sarcasm] but QDOS have confirmed my contract is fine.