IR35 - No MOO or client control

**LisaContractorUmbrella** · 5 November 2013, 08:20

Originally posted by bracken View Post

I can't make my mind up whether this is good or bad for IR35. Big finance client has announced a contractor blackout from 16 to 29 December (i.e. don't come to work, don't bill). Permies are welcome to come in over this period. On the one hand it sounds like a slam dunk outside of IR35 as it demonstrates no MOO / different treatment of contractors but on the other hand, it demonstrates client control. My contract allows me to work for other clients at the same time as the current one.

What do my learned fellow boarders think - good or bad for IR35. I think it's good.

B

I don't think it would make the difference between inside/outside but IMHO it does indicate client control as they are giving you no option; the break in the contract is enforced.

**GB9** · 5 November 2013, 08:27

Originally posted by LisaContractorUmbrella View Post

I don't think it would make the difference between inside/outside but IMHO it does indicate client control as they are giving you no option; the break in the contract is enforced.

On the contrary. They are not controlling how the op delivers work. And indeed they are demonstrating that they treat suppliers very differently to permies. The op is being told 'no work, no pay'. This is a strong indicator of genuine self-employment i.e. outside IR35.

**SueEllen** · 5 November 2013, 08:42

We have something on this posted every year.

In short nothing to do with your IR35 status.

The main issue you will have is in January - will the client expect you to work longer to meet deadlines due to them closing their facilities to you?

**northernladuk** · 5 November 2013, 08:54

Client control? Telling you not to come in, awww come on lol..... There has to be a degree of control over what you do else it would be anarchy. If we call every directive from the client control it would be mayhem. It's not control at all, it's communicating a company situation and that is contractors don't work for the period. Client direction does not include communications and discussions with your client about contract issues and everything else. Is the client booking a meeting in a room across the way client direction when he makes you attend that room?!?!?!?!?

It's just standard no work no pay. It's not a slam dunk but is an indicator. It is however the way we are expected to work so there won't be too many brownie points for doing what we are supposed to do if you get my meaning. Remember bank hols are the same as this, you are available to work but the client doesn't let you so you are already taking days off at clients request.

**malvolio** · 5 November 2013, 09:15

It's all in the wording. "We are telling you not to come in for these days" which is Direction, as opposed to "There will be no work allocated to you for these days so we won't pay you for them", which is about Mutuality. Or, of course, you ignore their requirement and you write and say YourCo will not be providing services on those days, hope that is acceptable.

But as has been said, treating a contractor differently to a permie is a clear indicator that you aren't a disguised anything.

**aoxomoxoa** · 5 November 2013, 09:22

Originally posted by malvolio View Post

It's all in the wording. "We are telling you not to come in for these days" which is Direction, as opposed to "There will be no work allocated to you for these days so we won't pay you for them", which is about Mutuality. Or, of course, you ignore their requirement and you write and say YourCo will not be providing services on those days, hope that is acceptable.

But as has been said, treating a contractor differently to a permie is a clear indicator that you aren't a disguised anything.

I disagree - it's not about direction. "We are telling you not to come in for these days" - in my book that's not direction and control, which is all about how you do the work and what work you're asked to do, as opposed to whether you're required on a particular day.

**DirtyDog** · 5 November 2013, 09:29

Originally posted by GB9 View Post

On the contrary. They are not controlling how the op delivers work. And indeed they are demonstrating that they treat suppliers very differently to permies. The op is being told 'no work, no pay'. This is a strong indicator of genuine self-employment i.e. outside IR35.

I agree - permies have to go in and work; contractors are expressly told not to go in to work. If you were being treated as a permie then you would be told to go in.

Good for your IR35 position.

**LisaContractorUmbrella** · 5 November 2013, 09:31

Originally posted by aoxomoxoa View Post

I disagree - it's not about direction. "We are telling you not to come in for these days" - in my book that's not direction and control, which is all about how you do the work and what work you're asked to do, as opposed to whether you're required on a particular day.

Then why ask for an opinion

It's not enough to determine your status one way or another - it would be a pointer at best. If you are happy with your interpretation let it go

**aoxomoxoa** · 5 November 2013, 09:48

Not me guv

Originally posted by LisaContractorUmbrella View Post

Then why ask for an opinion

It's not enough to determine your status one way or another - it would be a pointer at best. If you are happy with your interpretation let it go

Hi Lisa, it was Bracken asking for an opinion and I was obliging with one

IR35 - No MOO or client control