Hourly rate - employer checking timesheet?

[PEEL]

Hi all,

Does anyone here have any experience of having timesheets checked when contracting on an hourly rate?

My contract has no defined minimum / maximum hours and I generally put in about 10 hours a day. The client representative who signs off my electronic timesheet at the end of each week works in on a different client site than I normally do, and I am always in the office before he arrives and after he leaves. One of the permies asked me the other day why I eat lunch at my desk. I replied, quite simply, so that I can bill for the time. The permie that said that I should just eat out and still bill for it, as he once did. Said permie then went on to suggest that it's generally accepted practice to add on 15 or 30 mins either side of the working day and bill for it. Has anyone done this before? Until now I assumed the client matched up the timesheet with the swipe card access to get into and out of the building when on site, and checked logon times when off-site. Is this the case? Do people on hourly rates take long breaks (like going to the gym) and also bill for them in the same way that a permie gets paid regardless of working / drinking coffee and chatting?

I'd like to think I would only bill for the work I've done, given that the darker side of this leads to fraud.

[GazCol]

As you alluded to, it's not just a question of morals but it is fraud billing for time worked that you haven't. Given how easy it would be to check, and dependent on the industry you're working in, something that is quite possibly checked during audits, I wouldn't risk it. Either take the break and don't bill for it or continue as you are.

[northernladuk]

One of the permies asked me the other day why I eat lunch at my desk. I replied, quite simply, so that I can bill for the time. The permie that said that I should just eat out and still bill for it, as he once did. Said permie then went on to suggest that it's generally accepted practice to add on 15 or 30 mins either side of the working day and bill for it. Has anyone done this before? Until now I assumed the client matched up the timesheet with the swipe card access to get into and out of the building when on site, and checked logon times when off-site. Is this the case? Do people on hourly rates take long breaks (like going to the gym) and also bill for them in the same way that a permie gets paid regardless of working / drinking coffee and chatting?

You do understand the difference between a permie and a contractor and are well aware of IR35 and the difference in accounting between the two don't you? Taking advice like this from a permie and even considering it seems to demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of being a professional contractor. Billing to go to the gym?

Question to the per hour guys... billing for eating at your desk? It isn't often I see someone working at their desk while eating. Most browse the news sites or general stuff on the web while eating but we are all per day guys n gals. Do you really work while eating or are you just taking a break while being at your desk?

[SueEllen]

As a contractor I'm my own employer and don't believe in defrauding the client.

Also some client's have strictly enforced Health and Safety policies requiring you to have 30 mins break in a 6 hour day and another 15-20 minutes if you work over 8 hours.

This isn't done out of the kindness of their hearts - it's to help to stop you suing them for a wide range of injuries.

[PEEL]

You do understand the difference between a permie and a contractor and are well aware of IR35 and the difference in accounting between the two don't you?

Yes, thanks.

Question to the per hour guys... billing for eating at your desk? It isn't often I see someone working at their desk while eating. Most browse the news sites or general stuff on the web while eating but we are all per day guys n gals. Do you really work while eating or are you just taking a break while being at your desk?

For me it's half working and half browsing the net. I justify billing over the time period because it is a short period of time and I am still engaged in work - just not working with 100% productivity. It's similar to billing for a period in which you had a chat to a permie for 15 minutes about your Fantasy Football team whilst you were at a desk scanning emails.

[mudskipper]

Yes, thanks.



For me it's half working and half browsing the net. I justify billing over the time period because it is a short period of time and I am still engaged in work - just not working with 100% productivity. It's similar to billing for a period in which you had a chat to a permie for 15 minutes about your Fantasy Football team whilst you were at a desk scanning emails.

Sounds like you're taking the mick.

[jmo21]

Laudable as it is, thousands (millions?) of companies the world over charge their clients more hours than they actually work.

Little companies like us aren't any different.

And it's not really any different from your average permie getting away doing less work than they are supposed to either. Is that ok because they are sticking it to the man?

So if you are the type to "try and get away with it", it doesn't matter whether you're a permie worker, small Ltd contractor, or a boss at a big company, you wouldn't be the first and you certainly won't be the last.

[psychocandy]

Hmm. Agree with others. You can't bill client for when you're not there. Thats just wrong. And most clients will expect a non-bill of at least 30 mins in the day and wont go for the working at desk idea.

As for being on an hourly rate and billing for 10 hours. Not sure about this. OK it may not be in the contract but surely the client is going to be expecting you to work (and bill for) 'normal' hours? i.e. 40.

If they get a bill from the agency a month later for 25% more than they're expecting to pay then possibly they aint gonna be pleased. Unless of course you can totally justify and/or they asked for this.
Of course, part of the fault is that its not in the contract. In the past, I'm sure any hourly contracts I had mentioned 40 hours a week as well.

If it was me, I'd have spoken to client and seen what the expectations were rather than just work what I felt like for as much money as I wanted. Can see that one ending badly. Possibly worse if/when they find out you've been billing for lunch/gym times too.

[psychocandy]

also, to add, most clients dont check timesheets/logs etc. Doesnt mean you should take the piss. This would be a quick route to getting canned.

[sbutton]

Yes, thanks.

For me it's half working and half browsing the net. I justify billing over the time period because it is a short period of time and I am still engaged in work - just not working with 100% productivity. It's similar to billing for a period in which you had a chat to a permie for 15 minutes about your Fantasy Football team whilst you were at a desk scanning emails.

So, this time that you are half-working / half engaged with work? Does that include right now, when you are posting away on contractoruk? It's like you're at lunch, surfing the web... but still at your desk, so that counts as "work"... or perhaps you are available, in case someone happens to ask a work related question!?

Sounds like you're getting away with it, but don't think it's not being noticed. Think yourself lucky you can bill hourly and "work" as long as you feel like, that's pretty rare these days.

Good luck.