Opt in Opt out

[carpenteri]

Friends,

Can someone point me to where I can find the "official" explanation regarding opting in or opting out.

Thanks in advance

[meridian]

The PCG have an excellent guide in their on-line library, but I think you have to be a member to access this.

(Through the menu on the left-hand side of their website www.pcg.org.uk, choose Member Services | Expert Guides | Guide To Agency Regulations)

[carpenteri]

Thanks very much.

Cheers

[Mailman]

the PCG are the f*ckers that gave agents a way out of the regs! Dont waste your money on a bunch of morons who are supposedly on your side BUT still give the power to agents to force people to opt out!

If you are a business and you are interested in protecting your shareholders profit then opt in. If you are a moron and believe that opting out is the only way to protect yourself from IR35, then opt out

Mailman

[malvolio]

Hey, MM, you're getting slow. That took at least an hour for the predictable response to turn up.

It's nothing to do with IR35.

Opting in does give you a degree of protection against not being paid if the agency aren't, but not much more than you are contractually bound by anyway, and it removes a small amount of financial risk which is actually a minor pointer towards being IR35-caught. It also allows you to change agency after 14 weeks away from the client. Big deal...

On the other hand opting-in does declare you as being more interested in being employed than in being in business (real businesses don't need the regulations, which is why the PCG negotiated the opt-out option) and in the post-Dacas/post-Muscat world that is probably a bad thing. Also, because it involves the agency in less work and less risk, you should be able to negotiate better terms and to drop a range of contract clauses that help get you outside IR35. And anything getting you away from being a temporary employee is a good way to stop the client killing your contract after 12 months becuase they don't understand DACAS properly.

So the rule is, opt-out by default and if it all goes pear-shaped and you are IR35 caught, then opt back in at any time up to when you start work. But then again, if you are IR35 caught, why not claim holiday pay, pension rights, dismissal protection and all the other things that employees are entitled to?

Ignore Mailman, he doesn't understand. Join the PCG and read the proper story. Which is largely as above...

[The Lone Gunman]

the PCG are the f*ckers that gave agents a way out of the regs! Dont waste your money on a bunch of morons who are supposedly on your side BUT still give the power to agents to force people to opt out!

If you are a business and you are interested in protecting your shareholders profit then opt in. If you are a moron and believe that opting out is the only way to protect yourself from IR35, then opt out

Mailman

Hey Postie, keep the piss taking and the talking crap to the general and light relief topics. People come to these topics for reasonable advice. If you dont have any then STFU.
You are entitled to an opinion, but that needs to be supported by facts and explanations here not just your ill informed rhetoric.

[carpenteri]

Thanks friends for the advice and especially malvolio for the detailed explanation.

Have just added the PCG joining fee to my list of start up costs.

Cheers

Ian

[DodgyAgent]

the PCG are the f*ckers that gave agents a way out of the regs! Dont waste your money on a bunch of morons who are supposedly on your side BUT still give the power to agents to force people to opt out!

If you are a business and you are interested in protecting your shareholders profit then opt in. If you are a moron and believe that opting out is the only way to protect yourself from IR35, then opt out

Mailman

We have three large clients. Each one of them insists that a contractor has to opt out. You will find that the decision is often being made by the clients.
But of course mailman does not really see beyond the red in his neck

[Sionner]

Opt in - opt out

It's my observation that agencies are using the opt in/out clause as an additional weapon against contractors. i.e. "if you don't opt out, you won't get the contract" or "if you don't opt out, we can only offer a reduced rate" - rather than the contractor being able to negotiate a higher rate by opting out. So in that context, the regulations are not benefitting us as a whole.

[hyperD]

We have three large clients. Each one of them insists that a contractor has to opt out. You will find that the decision is often being made by the clients.
But of course mailman does not really see beyond the red in his neck

That's because some agents have given the impression to some clients that there could be "difficulties" with opting in. Happened to me with a client... agent phoned me up to say literally "Are you in or out?" I said "In" to test the water, he went "Try again". The client apparantly wanted out to avoid "potential employment" type issues - informed by the agency in their best interests, of course.

To be honest, it's all a load of, well, nonsense... we might as well have temps, perms and bona fide businesses the way the underhand tactics and legislation are going.