Find out which recruiters are most trusted...

[malvolio]

I don't get the aversion to LinkedIn as a driver anyway. I'm a contractor, I look for work, that's kinda what I do. If my current client sees I'm looking then my contract is coming to its end, which isn't supposed to be a surprise to him. If he gets upset I'm looking, I really don't care: if he's not offering me an extension then he has no claim on my time anyway.

The other issue I have is that you are an IB man. That is almost entirely a closed and self-referential market. You may be able to pick and choose which agents you want to use, 90% of contractors can't.

So top marks for trying something different, but personally I won't see the value.

[DaveB]

I don't get the aversion to LinkedIn as a driver anyway. I'm a contractor, I look for work, that's kinda what I do. If my current client sees I'm looking then my contract is coming to its end, which isn't supposed to be a surprise to him. If he gets upset I'm looking, I really don't care: if he's not offering me an extension then he has no claim on my time anyway.

The other issue I have is that you are an IB man. That is almost entirely a closed and self-referential market. You may be able to pick and choose which agents you want to use, 90% of contractors can't.

So top marks for trying something different, but personally I won't see the value.

Have to agree with Mal there. In the IB market you have a limited pool of both recruiters and contractors and in that environment it might work. For general IT contractors the only good agent is the one with the next contract and we don't trust any of them anyway.

When I am looking, or know I will be looking, I update my CV and upload it on the relevant websites and the agents call me. In the last five years I've not had more than a single gig from any agency I've dealt with, with despite never being out of contract for more than a couple of weeks. They all say they will be pro-active in looking for a new gig for you when the current one ends, but they never deliver on it and I don't wait around for them to actually do it.

[benjiman]

It's not just for IB - promise!

I don't get the aversion to LinkedIn as a driver anyway. I'm a contractor, I look for work, that's kinda what I do. If my current client sees I'm looking then my contract is coming to its end, which isn't supposed to be a surprise to him. If he gets upset I'm looking, I really don't care: if he's not offering me an extension then he has no claim on my time anyway.

We intend to add tools for active seekers too, such as the options to appear in recruiter search results, publish that you're available to LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, etc. We're just sticking to the market we know best before opening up. Does any of that sound useful?

The other issue I have is that you are an IB man. That is almost entirely a closed and self-referential market. You may be able to pick and choose which agents you want to use, 90% of contractors can't.

So top marks for trying something different, but personally I won't see the value.

Thanks! Im so glad you came on to comment, we're developed a system that's been analysing job ads for a while now that I hope will change your mind..

I've designed an algorithm that can tell you which recruiters are best for your requirements, and most likely to place you. By checking all the ads they've placed now and in the past, it checks their aggregate job descriptions against your needs.

This is an example of the data and algorithm from our test bed and here's the original design

This should be great for you as our matching considers:

• semantic relevance to your search terms
• liquidity (how many job ads they place)
• how many candidates have them in their “trusted list”
• what rates they advertise
• how precise they are about the rates on offer
• SEO analysis

.. then you can just add them up and fire out a notification, or contact them the 'old fashioned' way

Really trying to make it work for active seekers as well as passive candidates.

There are at least 2000 recruiter individuals with live jobs right now, they are not all the same..

Imagine you want to work with a certain technology, or change location, maybe there's a recruiter who is making all the placements in those areas, maybe you should give them an email?

What do you think?

[SueEllen]

Ben I suggest you get a focus group together face-to-face, and also do some basic research in all the types of sites that are out there that contractors get work by.

As you don't seem to have a clue about:
1. What recruitment sites that are out there including the ones that have failed in the last 3 years, and
2. How contractors outside your sector work.

I keep meeting lots of technology enthusiasts with ideas plus a finished product of some sort and the majority of them have done absolutely no market research.

This means when you ask them a simple question i.e. how many people use Facebook professionally compared to LinkedIn/Twitter, or point out x is not trusted they get upset as you are highlighting one of the many reasons why their product will fail.

They also don't seem to have a clue about what is out there already. If you can't distinguish yourself from your competitors while making your site easy to use no contractor will use it.

[benjiman]

iProfile died for a reason...

iProfile, which we all hate on here, has a model where a contractor/permie uploads their CV, selects when they are available and their CV is searchable by skill set by agencies the contractor/permie allows.

I know iProfile, I played golf with head of marketing, and got to learn how it died. It required ubiquitous use and tried to replace cvs, but LinkedIn did the online profile better. It didnt protect your details - your 'status' wasn't 'secret' - it was all or nothing.

How is your model different?

However the model has failed due to it's rigidity and lack of data control.

It's a long thread so appreciate you may have missed my earlier comments. We're different because we're not rigid and have data controls!

Not all recruiters are equal, we give the ability to measure and choose who to work with.

Maybe you want to network with graduate recruiters, or target guys known to place lots of Hadoop engineers?

No problem with us... no need to connect on LinkedIn with LION recruiters and wait for some spam that hits the target..

As a LION, you will be expected to accept invitations from complete randoms and usually their friends as well

(from undercover recruiter - see also here, here and here)

Don't think this is a real issue? There are 1.5m LION profile results in google

So it's actually agencies who are uploading contractors/permie details and setting availability.

We don't want to be a 'social network'. We've got all the social integration (LI, Google, etc) we need to avoid that, or you can just register with an email address, we don't need candidate and recruiters to do extra work in the system. We're not trying to be LinkedIn, we're wrapping all the existing services and providing an engagement tool.

In larger technical sectors the "hot names" on the contractor side are known but that is due to their networking/conference speaking etc it doesn't necessarily related to how good their actual work is. I know a couple of people who are regarded as "hot names" and they openly admit that they aren't judged on their technical work.

Recruiters have a DB full of names, and don't know who to call, this tool lets them track their relationships and see who is available when they get a new role released on to HR PSLs (Preferred Supplier Lists) they are a member of. You don't have to be a 'hot name' - you have to be good enough to do a contract to get a call.

On the agency side there are new agencies springing up every day normally ex-employees of larger agencies. How are you going to get around non-solicitation issues if the site isn't openly public?

We can't control what can be said between people over email or otherwise, we're an introduction and engagement tool. Perhaps I don't understand the question.

Everyone seems to have the same concern, which is "this is not a demand-driven tool".

However there is measurable demand for:

• Discovery of new quality recruiters (career shifts, new contractors, people who move countries, etc.)
• Checking who has access to lots of relevant contracts and high rates
• Improving relevance and timeliness of calls and approaches

We know this product is working for some people, I'm simply here to find out how to expand it to help you hardcore died-in-the-wool types as well. As much as I appreciate your particular feedback I'm struggling to find any product suggestions I can prioritise from it.

[benjiman]

Ben I suggest you get a focus group together face-to-face, and also do some basic research in all the types of sites that are out there that contractors get work by.

As you don't seem to have a clue about:
1. What recruitment sites that are out there including the ones that have failed in the last 3 years, and
2. How contractors outside your sector work.

I keep meeting lots of technology enthusiasts with ideas plus a finished product of some sort and the majority of them have done absolutely no market research.

Thanks for the suggestion SueEllen, but that's simply not true - I've been tracking a spreadsheet of 20+ recruiter startups for the last two years. There's been nothing that looks to augment the recruiter-candidate relationship in any useful way, most of the ideas have revolved around removing agents from the equation. We don't want to remove the agent from the game, we just want to allow for digital engagement without privacy issues.

The fact you think we're iProfile, just shows me my marketing is not set-up right, please refer to my previous post to see how we have a more candidate-friendly model than iProfile did.

This means when you ask them a simple question i.e. how many people use Facebook professionally compared to LinkedIn/Twitter, or point out x is not trusted they get upset as you are highlighting one of the many reasons why their product will fail.

The very reason I'm here having this conversation is to find out the unique concerns of the contractor mindset. You're a tough crowd, I can take it. It's been great launching a product and watching it find its own market, often in places I wouldn't expect. I built it for you guys, but it only works for some currently and now I'm adapting it to satisfy everyone. What is a good conversion rate for a product like this? Any product? You can't expect 100% approval ratings in any product

I've interviewed 5+ contractors in each design iteration and Im now on design iteraton 6. The product has changed loads in the that time, in response to contractor input. What you see is months behind our plans and discussions, simply because Im understaffed. But the click-rates and conversions rates are all respectable, and UX interviews have gone well. Oh and I go on forums and ask people what they think regularly ... some are more welcoming than others!

What you have seen is the worse it will ever be, come back in a month and it will have included your suggestions (do you have any?)

Keep it coming guys.. Im not discouraged by this at all, you're a shrewd bunch and a tough crowd, and I may not win you over. May just be more useful to mid to entry-level contractors initially. So be it, Im just letting it find its own market, and it is!

[flipFlop]

I know iProfile, I played golf with head of marketing, and got to learn how it died.

Is iProfile really now dead? Praise the Lord!

None of the rest of us needed to play golf - or even pocket billiards - with its "head of marketing" to know why this loathsome site was destined to die.

The iProfile site was like a rampaging zombie. No matter how often you tried to delete the incomprehensible gibberish that iProfile rendered your original c.v. into it would spontaneously regenerate.

[jmo21]

Thought I'd resurrect his post.

Found a competitor w ww.theplacetofind.com/

One of the owners was shilling it to an agent on LinkedIn and it reminded me of this thread and wondered if it was the same site

Wonder how the OP is getting on?

[benjiman]

Back from the dead!

Thought I'd resurrect his post.

Cool, thanks jmo21!

Found a competitor w ww.theplacetofind.com/

One of the owners was shilling it to an agent on LinkedIn and it reminded me of this thread and wondered if it was the same site

Wonder how the OP is getting on?

What do you think of their idea?

I like their execution, Id be happy if I had their design team! Although Im still left a little unclear about what it is Im meant to be signing up for here.

"Contractors.. Never miss an opportunity"

Im not sure I get that, but it's nice to see a competitor in the space.

Thanks for your interest, we're getting on well, Im working on some other projects at the moment, and Secretstatus is ticking along as a useful tool for our small user-base, not making any money, currently.

I don't think I would try to make a product for contractors again, as they are extremely resourceful and don't seem to want to engage in a cookie cut fashion. Preferring to negotiate their own deals.

Im impressed with their execution and wish them well.

Be fascinated to hear what you guys make of it all.

Thanks
Ben Ritchie
Serial Entrepreneur
--Struggling To Meet People's Needs With Technology--

[cojak]

But now you've alerted the mods to this thread. And now it's gone from asking about a business model to blatant adverting and they *hate* that.

I'm on tapatalk at the mo, but thanks for the 'heads up'.