Strange Contract

[spongeym]

You are barking up the wrong tree, I'm afraid.

If you're going to take the time to post a comment at least have the balls to tell the rest of the world what you actually mean.

[SueEllen]

I Opted out, and did have the contract reviewed. But I guess this is a big lesson for me on the next contract and will have a much better view of what to look out for in a contract.

I'm currently looking for a new position so fingers crossed that I won't be in this situation much longer.

It's not just your written contract that's important under IR35 it's your working practices. (I suggest you use the search facility and read older threads on the subject.)

That's why I said go home if you don't have any work to do.

The client shouldn't be paying you to sit around and do nothing in their office. There is an exception to this but even then you shouldn't be sitting in their offices like a permie.

I actually go home and have time off if I run out of work particularly before a holiday period or in summer.

The money I lose for the few days I do that is more than made up by the fact the client keeps me on longer/extends my contract as they realise they don't have to pay me for days where there is no work.

[Antman]

I've a question about working practices though.

How would an investigation by HMRC uncover your working practices? Once I'm set up at the client site, any record of who asked whom to do what would be on end client's mail servers (or is there some other record?)

Do these investigations involve HMRC getting the end client to give access to this data?

Just curious,

Thanks

[SueEllen]

I've a question about working practices though.

How would an investigation by HMRC uncover your working practices? Once I'm set up at the client site, any record of who asked whom to do what would be on end client's mail servers (or is there some other record?)

Do these investigations involve HMRC getting the end client to give access to this data?

Just curious,

Thanks

Someone in management or HR will answer HRMC's questions and instead of saying - "See the contract" they will say something like "we treated him like all our staff".

If you make it clear that you aren't like their permanent staff and have proof i.e. emails you saved on your own email account then even if they are stupid enough to write or say that you can dig it out your own evidence to give to your legal team then you should be ok.

BTW The majority of clients I have treat contractors differently from permanent staff.

[jamesbrown]

I've a question about working practices though.

How would an investigation by HMRC uncover your working practices? Once I'm set up at the client site, any record of who asked whom to do what would be on end client's mail servers (or is there some other record?)

Do these investigations involve HMRC getting the end client to give access to this data?

Just curious,

Thanks

Yes, they involve talking to the end client. It's worth having someone familiar with your role complete a Confirmation of Arrangements, which clarifies your working practices. It's also worth keeping evidence of your working practices (e.g. when you've told them that YourCo won't be providing services on such-and-such dates or will be sending a substitute etc). Some examples here:

Prove your contract is outside IR35 by collecting key evidence.

[northernladuk]

I've a question about working practices though.

How would an investigation by HMRC uncover your working practices? Once I'm set up at the client site, any record of who asked whom to do what would be on end client's mail servers (or is there some other record?)

Do these investigations involve HMRC getting the end client to give access to this data?

Just curious,

Thanks

Have a look at the JLJ case. The clients answers, although full of inaccuracies that were challenged didn't help his cause one iota..

Key facts overlooked in JLJ Services IR35 ruling:

In 2007, HMRC escalated its investigation by asking Spencer to supply the contact details of his clients. “I gave the contact details of a senior manager with whom I’d worked for several years, as well as those of my project manager at that time, whom I had only known for a few months. HMRC sent a list of questions, to which they responded; then two inspectors turned up to conduct interviews with them.”

[pFennig]

The Vile Obama's Hell

...or is there some other record?...

Yes. Please keep up-to-date. It's called PRISM.

[SussexSeagull]

Only thing I can add is that it can take contracts time to ramp up so a slow start doesn't necessarily mean it will continue like that.

However, if I was an HMRC inspector I would be all over someone doing 'Business As Usual'.

[SueEllen]

Yes, they involve talking to the end client. It's worth having someone familiar with your role complete a Confirmation of Arrangements, which clarifies your working practices. It's also worth keeping evidence of your working practices (e.g. when you've told them that YourCo won't be providing services on such-and-such dates or will be sending a substitute etc). Some examples here:

Prove your contract is outside IR35 by collecting key evidence

Sometimes getting a confirmation of arrangements can make matters worse as while you have a good contract that matches the upper contract, and email evidence that you are out of IR35 the person at the client will write something silly.

[jamesbrown]

Sometimes getting a confirmation of arrangements can make matters worse as while you have a good contract that matches the upper contract, and email evidence that you are out of IR35 the person at the client will write something silly.

Just use a standard format (like the QDOS questionnaire) and hand everything off to the professionals if it comes to that. IIRC one of the issues with the JLJ case above was that they tried a DIY approach. On balance, I think it's a valuable thing to have, but there are no guarantees with anything, and the contents could be contradicted further down the line. Better to have one and to document any evidence that clarifies the actual working practices and let the professionals handle the rest.