IR 35 Contractor vs Permie Vs Business

[malvolio]

Maybe HMRC has been too busy with the lobby groups which like Turkeys cant be voting for Christmas, hence we now have even more stupid IR35.

My views.

Wrong views, though. IR35 hasn't changed since day one, nor has the case law. The BETs are a nonsense, as you have noticed, and the Alexander review is political posturing and a demonstration of incompetence, lack of knowledge of exsiting laws and a total failure to realise that it's is the clients that create the problem, not the worker: if the clients didn't deliberately take on disguised employees we wouldn't need IR35.

Nor is IR35 going away until someone at Westminster realises that the freelance sector earns £24bn a year for UK PLC despite HMG's best efforts and probably a lot more if they could just get on with it. Meanwhile all we can do is try to ensure HMRC are pointed at the non-businesses and leave us genuine freelances alone.

[martinluther]

Wrong views, though. IR35 hasn't changed since day one, nor has the case law. The BETs are a nonsense, as you have noticed, and the Alexander review is political posturing and a demonstration of incompetence, lack of knowledge of exsiting laws and a total failure to realise that it's is the clients that create the problem, not the worker: if the clients didn't deliberately take on disguised employees we wouldn't need IR35.

Nor is IR35 going away until someone at Westminster realises that the freelance sector earns £24bn a year for UK PLC despite HMG's best efforts and probably a lot more if they could just get on with it. Meanwhile all we can do is try to ensure HMRC are pointed at the non-businesses and leave us genuine freelances alone.

I dont think BET is nonsense, infact I think BET are correct, but then government must abolish IR35 because as long as IR35 stays, it would always be tied back to its own history and case laws. Instead government should have 3 tiers.

a. Ltd companies only for Business passing BET, where all the nonsensical stuff like substitution clause should be removed. Let them increase the capital requirement to atleast 10K or 20K, so that frivolous LTDs are restricted. A 20 dollar Ltd is ridiculous overhead on government to monitor and its all paid by taxpayers.
b. Genuine Contractor, Freelancing taxed at 20 to 30 percent to account for the real income risk that contractors run. This will also help government to save cost on employment tribunals etc. All employment rights should cease for contractors opting for 20%-30% tax regime. This should also then discourage sham arrangements. It can be administered by explicitly forfeiting the employment rights for the contractors.
c. And then proper employment.

You are right though. Its not going to happen. Too many vested and corrupt influence on Government and HMRC.

[northernladuk]

Now THIS sockie is more like it!

[GB9]

Does IR35 still exist?

According to Margaret Hodge (millionaire socialist) we are all tax dodging permies who are morally reprehensible and should pay our fair share. IR35 is not required.

Strangely she seems to have developed this attitude further since she lost power, having done little about this whilst in Government.

[BlasterBates]

Having explored some German / European opportunities I think atleast Germans have a separate category.

No it´s no different in Germany, even freiberuflers can be disguised employees.

The main difference is that social security is not a tax, but the fact that the officials work in a different office is little comfort. One saving grace is that generally self-employed disguised employees don´t pay fines or penalties if caught, they just pay the social security they "should have paid" (or not depending on your view).

There are no European countries I´m aware of that easily allow you to avoid Social Insurance. In Switzerland virtually all contractors pay it and they´re very strict, Luxembourg was the same.

If anything I would say Britain probably is probably the most liberal in allowing you to avoid it, though marks to Germany for not prosecuting freelancers.