Irate Public sector client's manager sends e-mail rejecting Substitutions

[psychocandy]

What others have said. Most contracts state that subs are only allowed with the clients permission anyway. What does yours say?

Did colleague just go ahead and do it anyway without asking permission? Maybe that's why client is not pleased.

To be honest, I think a lot of us are in the position that, even though its contract, client wouldn't be happy. Its just unfortunate that your client has felt the need to reject everything in advance.

Can't be good for IR35 but I doubt client cares about this. Might hit home when they realise that this one email has meant all the contractors leave / demand more per day to take account of IR35 taxes.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

They aren't formally working within it yet Lisa. If they were then I would walk out the door today.

True but if that's the client attitude on something as fundamental as ROS then I wouldn't be too hopeful of IR35 status

[northernladuk]

They aren't formally working within it yet Lisa. If they were then I would walk out the door today.

Not formally but that won't matter when he gets inspected as per the JLJ case. For all intensive purposes he is inside and he should be running his accounts as such. He knows he has so it is obligation as a director of a LTD to run his accounts properly.

Can't be good for IR35 but I doubt client cares about this. Might hit home when they realise that this one email has meant all the contractors leave / demand more per day to take account of IR35 taxes.

Understatement of the year that so far.

[bobspud]

Clients don't care about ir35 because it was not aimed at them. Most of the time they think they are getting a plebe without any employment rights. It's time to fine companies as well as contractors.

In the OPs situation I would go and have a word with the guy that lost his temper and ask where your holiday and pension rights are...

[SueEllen]

Clients don't care about ir35 because it was not aimed at them. Most of the time they think they are getting a plebe without any employment rights. It's time to fine companies as well as contractors.

In the OPs situation I would go and have a word with the guy that lost his temper and ask where your holiday and pension rights are...

The problem is these people don't know the difference between temps and contractors.

[7specialgems]

Clients don't care about ir35 because it was not aimed at them. Most of the time they think they are getting a plebe without any employment rights. It's time to fine companies as well as contractors.

In the OPs situation I would go and have a word with the guy that lost his temper and ask where your holiday and pension rights are...

The public sector regulation/PN regarding over £220p/d for over 6 months are such that the client stands to be fined up to 5 times the contractor's annual effective rate.

That's certainly where the flapping has come from at my client.

In answer to the reponse above regarding my clause, my clause regarding subsitution "will not unreasonably by denied" so long as the substitute is suitably qualified (including security clearance). Agree with previous remark here that this is very grey as far as HR is concerned.

I am still raw from the e-mail and I have only been contracting for the client for a month, so my initial feeling is that I will wait with baited breath for a revised contract and at the very least leave before I hit the magical six month marker and move to the private sector.

I will read up on the JLJ case over the next couple of evenings to see if that changes my personal view however. On the one hand we have a successful case of a contractor supplying a sub, he being vetted and accepted, working unresticted, completing and leaving. Then we have the missive of an irate manager who probably wasn't consulted, although his subordinate was. I am concerned about the implied working practices of this.

[jmo21]

This might be the first time I've ever heard of a subbie being used successfully.

[bobspud]

The problem is these people don't know the difference between temps and contractors.

The truth is that for most of us there is no difference.

[jmo21]

The truth is that for most of us there is no difference.

..and the managers at client co's certainly don't care, despite any clauses that might be in the contract their legal department have ok'd.

[bobspud]

I walked off site at the end of last year due to the new rules, so I don't need the lesson thanks.