Pregnancy/Maternity Questions

[northernladuk]

<great stuff> and.....

For me going to your client early and saying "i'm pregnant, but here is a plan of how I intend to manage it. I've got xyz in place and it won't affect the work. We have lots of time until this lets work through it" is better than saying "oh, btw I'm pregnant giving birth in 14 weeks. Yes I did know for ages but I thought I'd keep quiet until after you'd paid for that training course. Cheers"

Good post and great sounding approach. +1

[psychocandy]

To be fair to the OP, when do you disclose this info? 20 weeks pregnant, 4 weeks, 4 hours - do you tell them your future plans etc?

But, to be fair, I dont think they're going to be happy when they find out that your a few months away. Might not go down too well to be honest.

Another thing - if you're a contractor how did they pay for your training? Surely dodgy ground here IR35-wise?

[psychocandy]

Spot on sockie. If they decide that they're not happy with what you've done then you'll be gone unfortunately.....

[Kanye]

If it's so unethical, why is it the default advice to not disclose pregnancy at the interview stage? Maybe because it's more unethical to discriminate when given the chance.

As far as being 'straight up' - I'm not at all intending to wait till the last minute to disclose, I'm merely trying to find out what guidelines apply to contractors, as the only readily available information out there is geared at normal employees. If I don't find any information to the contractor, I shall disclose at 25 weeks, as I would do in any job.

If you are 23 weeks pregnant and disclosing at 25 then you'll be telling them on your first week or so.

In your original post you stated "I'd prefer to make sure I'm absolutely indispensable before I bring it up", implying you want to leave it later.

It's the latter scenario that would unethical, regardless of what the job center say.

Telling them clearly and early on is much more reasonable.

Maybe it wasn't intended this way, but your original post comes across as quite a calculated move to deceive the client by getting your feet under the table then breaking the bad news at the last possible moment.

Doing this is not only unfair to the client, but is also not the best approach to running your own business. You will royally annoy one of the few customers in your niche by going about it this way.

I'd be saying the same if it was a bloke about to go in for a moderately seriously operation by the way.

[northernladuk]

To be fair to the OP, when do you disclose this info? 20 weeks pregnant, 4 weeks, 4 hours - do you tell them your future plans etc?

But, to be fair, I dont think they're going to be happy when they find out that your a few months away. Might not go down too well to be honest.

Another thing - if you're a contractor how did they pay for your training? Surely dodgy ground here IR35-wise?

She is with brolly so IR35 is not an issue.

[northernladuk]

Mumsnet may give the OP the answers and support she is after IMO....

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Same rules that apply to 'normal' employers also apply to umbrella companies so the legal requirements are those laid down by HMR&C for entitlement.

HTH

[formant]

Have you had children before? Unless you have a lot of help ready to hit the ground running I think your being a bit naive if you think a newborn and work is possible. At least for the first few weeks - especially if you have a c-section or similar issues.

As mentioned somewhere in my long reply to several others up there, I do have a lot of support in place. It's my first, but my partner's third and for the first two he's been the main caregiver from pretty much day one. He'll be involved, he also works quite flexibly. I'll also have my mother here for weeks 2-6 at least.

Yes. I'd be very surprised if your client let you complete work for them during this 2 weeks. Also the umbrella would be breaking the law if they let you so would very likely not allow you to submit billable time during this period. The risks for them just aren't worth it.

I do want to take those two weeks off if that works for everyone involved. If it's mandatory with the umbrella company, I'm not going to try and go against that!

Your employed by your umbrella so you need to tell them. All you could possibly lose is your right to maternity leave, then again the Umbrella isn't your agency so they won't be inclined to tell the client (why would the umbrella care or not) and if they did you could hold them in breach of data protection.

Umbrella when convenient. Chat with Agency to give them heads up when line manager.

This is very helpful. As I don't want anything beyond the 2 weeks mandatory mandatory maternity leave, I'm happy to 'lose' my right to maternity leave, though that would only be lost - as far as I understand - if I miss the 25 week deadline of informing them. Well telling my umbrella company isn't the sensitive issue I'm concerned about.

I'm not going to tell you what to do but consider the following:

a) you don't have employment rights. The client could tell you to leave the moment you tell them. You need to keep them on side, waiting till the last possible moment doesn't do that for me.
b) If its a niche skill I'm assuming not that many people need it so consider the impacts of being "that person" - your only as good as your last job. Getting asked to leave because the client wasn't happy with you isn't a good way to start.

a) More than aware of that. Don't intend to wait till the last minute - mostly concerned with how and the legal requirements as to when.
b) I'm unlikely to keep contracting after this role (due to the niche market), so it's going to be either perm or back into academia to finish my PhD. I'm good at what I do, that's how I got to where I am, I doubt my pregnancy and eventually parenthood is going to affect that. If I'm going to get asked to leave it's not going to be for the quality of my work.

The only bit I'd take cause with in the above is the "My pregnancy isn't going to impact on my ability to do this job", which is very greatly in your opinion. Remember this is a business to business relationship. Your client will weight up the risks of keeping you vs terminating you the one with the lowest risk wins. You may think it won't affect you, the client may have other ideas and at the end of the day they are the only opinion that counts.

If they want to discriminate, they're going to discriminate. Unfortunately I suffer the consequences of generations of women-turned-mothers who've perpetuated the perception that one couldn't possibly work and parent at the same time. Not much I can do to fight people's preconceptions unless I get to keep the job and thereby the chance to do it well.

For me going to your client early and saying "i'm pregnant, but here is a plan of how I intend to manage it. I've got xyz in place and it won't affect the work. We have lots of time until this lets work through it" is better than saying "oh, btw I'm pregnant giving birth in 14 weeks. Yes I did know for ages but I thought I'd keep quiet until after you'd paid for that training course. Cheers"

The former is very much how I had planned to address the matter, so I'm glad that sounds sensible to someone else. I can't tell them before the training abroad (it's only a week) as they're sending me away on my first day of work - they booked my tickets before I even signed any contract. But no doubt I shall disclose during my first week in the office (I'll be office based weeks 2-3 of this job before it'll be home-based).

Thank you for your input. More constructive and less judgmental than most comments so far. Appreciate it.

[northernladuk]

What 'excuse'? The fact that they're not liable? Surely I'd be the only to decide to pursue legal action if something did go wrong, and it's not like I would. As far as 'something terrible happening' - 'something terrible' could happen to anyone at any time. They're only sending me away for a week, chances of something going wrong during that time are pretty slim.

They also didn't give me an opportunity to make any such disclosure to the client considering they booked my flights before I even signed any contract. As long-term contractors you should be aware that you don't have a lot of direct client contract prior to starting and I'm not going to dump this on my agent to sort out for me.

No, the company will be scared witless as they sent you on behalf of the client which opens them up to attack. Slim has nothing to do with anything. If there is the remotest chance the company will want to cover themselves. The fact they booked your flights involves them. For example. I did a lot of long haul with my current client. I booked and paid for all flights and invoiced it back. Despite all this I had to book any flights over 6 hours long as business class or better. They expected anyone travelling on behalf of the company, regardless of employment status or booking methods to adhere to this for H&S reasons. The thinking... if someone were to die of Deep Vein Thrombosis the company would be investigated which is expensive and time consuming even if they were not liable... and how many people die of DVT?

Do not underestimate the lengths companies will go to to avoid being put at risk by things like this. Travelling whilst not advising them of your situation is likely to get you instantly terminated, specialist or not.

[formant]

If you are 23 weeks pregnant and disclosing at 25 then you'll be telling them on your first week or so.

In your original post you stated "I'd prefer to make sure I'm absolutely indispensable before I bring it up", implying you want to leave it later.

It's the latter scenario that would unethical, regardless of what the job center say.

Telling them clearly and early on is much more reasonable.

Maybe it wasn't intended this way, but your original post comes across as quite a calculated move to deceive the client by getting your feet under the table then breaking the bad news at the last possible moment.

Doing this is not only unfair to the client, but is also not the best approach to running your own business. You will royally annoy one of the few customers in your niche by going about it this way.

I'd be saying the same if it was a bloke about to go in for a moderately seriously operation by the way.

Sorry, I did word that a bit poorly. In my first week I will be 23 weeks, that when they're sending me away for training. I'll have no chance to even speak to my line manager before then, so I won't be disclosing prior to going away. I'll be in training for a week. I'll be in the office weeks 24 and 25 and since I have to disclose by week 25 (direct.gov calculates the latest date you need to disclose by from your due date, so there's no ambiguity about that), I guess I'll just bring it up on my first day in the office.

When I say I'd 'like to wait till I'm indispensable', then that's really just because I'm fully aware that discrimination exists and that there's little I can do about it. Dismissing a pregnant woman is as much a calculated move by the company as me trying to make sure I'm not that easily discarded. It would be nice if the world was all rainbows and kittens and that wasn't necessary. I'm going to have to think of myself and my family here, too, and losing this contract is a rubbish prospect no matter how that comes about. So if they want to discriminate they'll do that - can't help it, but I can make it slightly more of a loss.