Belgium contracting: limited company/ management company

[tomcruise]

Hi guys,

Please don't forward me to the main Belgium thread, since i have read it deeply.
My question is the next:
1- I have been offered a contract of 6 months extensible to 12 in Belgium with a good rate.
2- The agency is w ww.amoriabond.com based in Netherlands.
3- They suggest me "insistently" to use its management company, called w ww.itsinternational.ltd.uk based on London, since client does not allow "other schemes".

My concerns are:
1- At the moment of signing the contract, it suddenly appears not ITs but Acuity Limited, an off-shore company based on Cyprus focus on real state management.
2- In fact, i never spoke with this society, and i realize it will pay me the gross of my moneys as dividends. (my scheme will be self-employed with a basis monthly amount and quarterly dividends).
3- All my incomings will be declared in Belgium, using 2 different bank accounts (what a mess)

Amoria assured ITs is fully compliant in Belgium, but not other solutions like:
a)management companies as Acces Financials (i understand)
b) using my own european limited company with VAT as i have done lot of times for less than 183 days in every country i have worked.

If they are fully compliant, why the **** uses a Cyprus based company to pay me? Is not the same scheme of other "uncompliant" management companies?

Why the **** in core of the European Union is needed this crap schemes to be payed for a simply freelance contract? Why doesn't the same agency pay me as self-employed or payroll, asume all the taxes (nearly 45% of your income), and forget this sucking third parties management companies?

Furthermore, ITs is offering me a costly "tax advisor pack" . But, it was not its work?

How can i reach Belgium tax authorities to know if it is really a legal way to work temporary in Belgium?

Have anyone worked for them? I have not found any references googling.

[BlasterBates]

Normally you can't just use your Ltd and continue paying tax in the UK.

Explained here:

Why can

The 183-day rule does not apply in situations where a one man Limited company is the employer. As soon as the director of the company moves, the permanent establishment of the company moves with him. Contractors operating through UK Limited companies outside the UK are consequently running the risk of being liable not only for unpaid personal income tax, but also for corporate tax, having created a permanent establishment in the country where they are working.

Always remember that even if you are in a country for less than 183 days you are not exempt from tax sourced in that country.

If you want to do this legally you should go through a Belgian accountant. From what I understand Belgian taxes are eye watering, so maybe you might want to reconsider doing the contract at all.

The management scheme is almost certainly illegal.

[tomcruise]

Belgium contracting: limited company/ management company

Normally you can't just use your Ltd and continue paying tax in the UK.

Explained here:

Why can




Always remember that even if you are in a country for less than 183 days you are not exempt from tax sourced in that country.

If you want to do this legally you should go through a Belgian accountant. From what I understand Belgian taxes are eye watering, so maybe you might want to reconsider doing the contract at all.

The management scheme is almost certainly illegal.

hi blaster, thanks for info. if Belgian tax authorities are strictly watching freelancers in order to declare all their incoming and paying full taxes in Belgium, why dont do the same with these management companies that pay you dividends from offshore?

probably will be easier to catch few them as is very common practice than thousands of freelancers... Belgian hipocresy

figures: daily rate 750€, net amount every month after taxes and expenses: 1500€, dividend after taxes payed quarterly from far away: 15.000€. so from 15.000€ month i will get to my pocket only 6500€. what a robbery!!!! avoid Belgium!!!!

[tomcruise]

Belgium contracting: limited company/ management company

i believed 183 day rule only applied to employees, not for independent business. Otherwise, how would been able London-based management companies work in Belgium market and pay you from Cyprus being compliant?

[cojak]

Because they aren't living and working in Belgium, you are.

[farout117]

I have been working as a freelance contractor here in Belgium for the last 3 years and I can tell you its a nightmare!

In the beginning, i tried to "investigate" lots of management companies, but it turned out that the ones I checked always had a "catch" somewhere. I was not comfortable with them, so I have decided to go SPRL.

If you do, prepare yourself for 55%-60% tax on your income (social security, personal tax et al) and if you decided to close the co, 35% on profits, 10% on liquidation, and around 5K for the liquidation.

[Boo]

Normally you can't just use your Ltd and continue paying tax in the UK.

Yes you can. Any EU registered company is permitted to send an officer or employee to work in another EU country for 183 days without that employment becoming taxable in the destination country. This is a treaty obligation and overrides national law.

There is nothing in law which makes a companies' seat move when a sole director moves. The seat is determined by many things including the permanence of the residence of the directors. It is possible to stay Belgium without becoming resident, simply by staying in a B&B instead of taking a flat.

You persist in presenting this misinformation time after time and one wonders what your motivation is for doing so ? Are you running or otherwise related to an umbrella company Master Bates ?

Always remember that even if you are in a country for less than 183 days you are not exempt from tax sourced in that country.

More deceit from the resident misinformer : the 183 day rule means precisely that you need not pay tax on earnings in the destination company

If you want to do this legally you should go through a Belgian accountant. From what I understand Belgian taxes are eye watering, so maybe you might want to reconsider doing the contract at all.

I worked in Belgium in 2009-2010 and the advice I received from the local Belgian accountant
was as I have stated above. What Belgian accountants' advice have you received Master B. ?


Boo

[tomcruise]

Yes you can. Any EU registered company is permitted to send an officer or employee to work in another EU country for 183 days without that employment becoming taxable in the destination country. This is a treaty obligation and overrides national law.

There is nothing in law which makes a companies' seat move when a sole director moves. The seat is determined by many things including the permanence of the residence of the directors. It is possible to stay Belgium without becoming resident, simply by staying in a B&B instead of taking a flat.

You persist in presenting this misinformation time after time and one wonders what your motivation is for doing so ? Are you running or otherwise related to an umbrella company Master Bates ?


More deceit from the resident misinformer : the 183 day rule means precisely that you need not pay tax on earnings in the destination company


I worked in Belgium in 2009-2010 and the advice I received from the local Belgian accountant
was as I have stated above. What Belgian accountants' advice have you received Master B. ?


Boo

I believe this forum is plenty of sales staff from management/umbrella companies scaring newbies about to use your own limited company for short term. Probably will be easier ask to contractors: has anyone never used a limited company in Belgium? Has anyone had any problem on that?

[BlasterBates]

Yes you can. Any EU registered company is permitted to send an officer or employee to work in another EU country for 183 days without that employment becoming taxable in the destination country. This is a treaty obligation and overrides national law.

There is nothing in law which makes a companies' seat move when a sole director moves. The seat is determined by many things including the permanence of the residence of the directors. It is possible to stay Belgium without becoming resident, simply by staying in a B&B instead of taking a flat.

You persist in presenting this misinformation time after time and one wonders what your motivation is for doing so ? Are you running or otherwise related to an umbrella company Master Bates ?


More deceit from the resident misinformer : the 183 day rule means precisely that you need not pay tax on earnings in the destination company


I worked in Belgium in 2009-2010 and the advice I received from the local Belgian accountant
was as I have stated above. What Belgian accountants' advice have you received Master B. ?


Boo

Why you can't use your UK Ltd in a foreign country and pay tax in the UK

The 183-day rule does not apply in situations where a one man Limited company is the employer. As soon as the director of the company moves, the permanent establishment of the company moves with him. Contractors operating through UK Limited companies outside the UK are consequently running the risk of being liable not only for unpaid personal income tax, but also for corporate tax, having created a permanent establishment in the country where they are working.

[captainham]

Why you can't use your UK Ltd in a foreign country and pay tax in the UK

So where this link talks about "As soon as the director of the company moves, the permanent establishment of the company moves with him", presumably this means where the Director moves full-time to the country in question. What about cases whereby a Director only works M-F in that country, then returns home at weekends?