Compliant with IR35

[BolshieBastard]

Jesus wept. Just had an agent on the phone about a possible role, sounded interesting but wanted lots of clarification about my cv.

Anyway, they've sent me through a contract so I can review their T&C's. Fair play, not many agents will forward the contract in advance of a confirmed interview IME. Given it a quick once over

It only states in black and white that the PSC 'shall be compliant with all IR35 legislation,' there's no right of substitution and the MOO looks a bit wooly. At the very top of the contract they say it is 'not company policy' to change these T&C's

Now, Im no contract expert and I'd have it reviewed by B&C but even I can see being compliant with all IR35 legislation is a no - no.

They look another temping agency trying to get in on the contract market as there's lots of other stuff about AWR and other guff in there.

BTW this is supposed to be an opted out contract. Looks like Im gonna pass this one up

[centurian]

You can be "compliant with IR35 legislation" and still be outside it. Being compliant simply means you have considered whether you are a disguised employee.

That said, I would also pass it up.

It will also send a good message to ClientCo if contactors won't even interview with them.

PS. Is this a private or public sector ClientCo

[BolshieBastard]

You can be "compliant with IR35 legislation" and still be outside it. Being compliant simply means you have considered whether you are a disguised employee.

That said, I would also pass it up.

It will also send a good message to ClientCo if contactors won't even interview with them.

PS. Is this a private or public sector ClientCo

Reading their contract T&C's in full, its pretty clear they dont just mean having considered IR35 but also operate within it (imo). TBH, I'd be surprised if Bauer & Cottrell would allow the condition to remain in the contract as it appears far too open ended (although I havent asked b&C to review).

The client is private sector.

I have passed it up too. The contract is pretty appalling tbh.

[centurian]

Hopefully you highlighted to the agency that the reason for rejection was squarely because of the contract. Granted the pimp may not feed that back to ClientCo - more likely they will kick themselves for sending you the T&C so early in the process.

Might be worth pinging the contract over to Kate anyway - she will probably be interested if more ClientCo's are dropping these clauses in.

[BolshieBastard]

Hopefully you highlighted to the agency that the reason for rejection was squarely because of the contract. Granted the pimp may not feed that back to ClientCo - more likely they will kick themselves for sending you the T&C so early in the process.

Yep, made them fully aware of the reasons why I wouldnt be taking this further, explained it all calmly and logically and followed it up with an email.

Might be worth pinging the contract over to Kate anyway - she will probably be interested if more ClientCo's are dropping these clauses in.

Never thought of that. Do you think it would be something they'd take on board seeing as Im not asking them to review from an engagement position?

[kingcook]

It's really something I (and others?) should start doing (if they're not already doing it), IMO -- asking for a copy of agencies standard T&C's.

I'd hate to have to go through interview(s), then find out the contract is an IR35 nightmare.

Actually, would it make sense to ask for the contract later - when the client has already said they want to hire you, you will have a lot more bargaining power WRT getting the terms changed.

[BolshieBastard]

It's really something I (and others?) should start doing (if they're not already doing it), IMO -- asking for a copy of agencies standard T&C's.

I'd hate to have to go through interview(s), then find out the contract is an IR35 nightmare.

Actually, would it make sense to ask for the contract later - when the client has already said they want to hire you, you will have a lot more bargaining power WRT getting the terms changed.

I agree with you here about asking for sight of the T&C's beforehand.

Although Im no expert as already mentioned, I can spot red flags and this contract certainly raised a few. At least they did recognise the upper and lower contracts must be the same (just about the only good point in the contract as it turns out) but, it would have been a real PITA to have gone to interview, been offered the role then found a, they wouldnt change anything and b, the T&C's made it very unfriendly wrt IR35.

[norrahe]

It's really something I (and others?) should start doing (if they're not already doing it), IMO -- asking for a copy of agencies standard T&C's.

I'd hate to have to go through interview(s), then find out the contract is an IR35 nightmare.

Actually, would it make sense to ask for the contract later - when the client has already said they want to hire you, you will have a lot more bargaining power WRT getting the terms changed.

All depends on the agency if they will give you a contract up front.

The client may want someone ASAP and won't want a delay while you get the contract reviewed, in the end I don't want to sign summat where I'm not overstepping the mark from a tax law perspective.

I've found up to now most agencies are happy for you ( well the ones I've been dealing with) to get it reviewed etc.. and are amenable to any changes to be made ( within reason). Though the last agent was a right PITA and I had to really fight to get changes which were needed.

It is getting interesting the changes in contracts these days as the seem to become longer and more convoluted and you have to go through them with a fine tooth comb as well as getting them reviewed.

[centurian]

Never thought of that. Do you think it would be something they'd take on board seeing as Im not asking them to review from an engagement position?

In any compliance related function, if a new strain of something starts to appear - you want to get an early look at it - in case it spreads.

Probably ping it over FYI, rather than specifically asking them to do any actual work.

[MyUserName]

When dealing with agents I have found the best tactic for getting changes in the contract is to explain that my IR35 insurance requires that the contract is reviewed by QDOS and that they pass it. If they fail it then I cannot sign until the contract is changed as per their recommendations as that would void my insurance.

Of course, I agree it is too harsh and that no other contractors have asked for changes and the client will not be happy and there are other potentials who are not being as irrational etc ... but I have already bought the insurance policy and am contractually bound to follow it's terms - there is nothing I can do!