Compliant with IR35

[BolshieBastard]

When dealing with agents I have found the best tactic for getting changes in the contract is to explain that my IR35 insurance requires that the contract is reviewed by QDOS and that they pass it. If they fail it then I cannot sign until the contract is changed as per their recommendations as that would void my insurance.

Of course, I agree it is too harsh and that no other contractors have asked for changes and the client will not be happy and there are other potentials who are not being as irrational etc ... but I have already bought the insurance policy and am contractually bound to follow it's terms - there is nothing I can do!

I always tell them about review being a condition of my insurance (which it is). As I said before, they appear to be a 'temping agent' trying to gatecrash the contract market in view of the AWR stuff in there as well.

[kingcook]

As I said before, they appear to be a 'temping agent' trying to gatecrash the contract market in view of the AWR stuff in there as well.

Here's hoping they go out of business pretty quickly.

[MyUserName]

I always tell them about review being a condition of my insurance (which it is). As I said before, they appear to be a 'temping agent' trying to gatecrash the contract market in view of the AWR stuff in there as well.

Not that I am an expert but it sounds to me like you are right about them.

[jmo21]

It's really something I (and others?) should start doing (if they're not already doing it), IMO -- asking for a copy of agencies standard T&C's.

I'd hate to have to go through interview(s), then find out the contract is an IR35 nightmare.

Actually, would it make sense to ask for the contract later - when the client has already said they want to hire you, you will have a lot more bargaining power WRT getting the terms changed.

I disagree.

Once you have been offered the role, you have the upper hand.

You also have client co contact names and if the agent still won't budge then "Ok, I'll email Mr Interviewer and let him know why I can no longer accept" should get things moving.

[Raxme]

Simples

Give them two rates

(i) outside IR35
(ii) inside IR35

Ask them to choose

Money talks

[Justin Control]

Why are contractors so passive about this?

Once you've had an interview with the client, whether directly or through their agents, you should be sending them a copy of your T's & C's.

How can you present yourself as a legitimate supplier of professional services without these?

[bobspud]

Why are contractors so passive about this?

Once you've had an interview with the client, whether directly or through their agents, you should be sending them a copy of your T's & C's.

How can you present yourself as a legitimate supplier of professional services without these?

Thats down to the Agent also understanding WTF they are dealing with.

I think this will become far more common as IR35 takes a grip and starts shaking out the weak. Its not like it has never been said that being caught by IR35 depends on your actions as well as the contracts... I am one of the only guys on my site that actively books working from my own office days in my diary (at least two to three days a week) and TELLS the client thats what I am doing rather than asking them.

I am also considering starting to swap my working at my office days from the position that "I am working 3 days" to "I am delivering X it will cost you 3 days..." This then allows me to demonstrate taking a fixed price deliverable and keeping the additional money over the time it takes to complete the job or having to work more time at my risk to complete the deliverable...

[northernladuk]

Why are contractors so passive about this?

Once you've had an interview with the client, whether directly or through their agents, you should be sending them a copy of your T's & C's.

How can you present yourself as a legitimate supplier of professional services without these?

A very true point but Bobspud nails it with his first comment. With the recent explosion in these smaller agencies the whole contracting thing is just getting watered down. There are so many permies seeing it as a quick way to get a job the percentage of people who actually understand what they are doing will have dropped like a stone. That means the agents won't know either. When a proper contractor now challenges an agent he will be seen as a pain in the arse rather than how it should be. I pushed hard at a potential gig a year ago about what I can and can't do and the agent said to me 'Can't you just do what the client wants and keep your head down'. He wouldn't budge so I declined and he informed me one of the other people in the running has got it as he was happy to go along with agent/client wishes which from what I could tell put him firmly inside. I do despair sometimes.

[MyUserName]

That is a worrying point.

If more and more people are becoming 'permtractors' then actual contractors are going to have their position massively weakened when they demand the relevant business terms be enforced as there will be a dozen permtractors who will simply do what they are told.

[Justin Control]

Thats down to the Agent also understanding WTF they are dealing with.

...

...assuming that you are dealing through the clients agent.

I've noticed many of my friends are now only dealing directly with clients. A lot of these guys are very talented, and if their approach becomes widespread, it will have interesting implications for the quality of contractors that agents will be able to present to clients in the future.


One of the great advantages of having your own T's and C's is that contracts can be written in terms of deliverables rather than in time frames. Most of my contracts have a schedule of deliverables with staged payments on completion. This pretty much eliminates most IR35 issues.