PCG article about War on public sector contractors

[centurian]

Is the proposal that it applies to

a) >220pd and >6mths
b) >220pd or >6mths

Different articles are quoting slightly different things.

If it's a), it would apply to the vast majority of any new public sector contractors, even those on short contracts. If it's b), then it means it's still possible to do quick, short bursts - which is generally what contracting is all about.

[bobspud]

We are just going to have to see where this stupid policy goes...

There are several points that are not clear.

1) What constitutes a Civil Servant. My site is very clear that I am Not an HMG employee, and as such not a civil servant and perfectly free to pay myself how I like.
2) What is Beaker and his chums going to do to make government departments speed up and get jobs done in 6 months? When all the departments realise that NO-ONE is renewing after six months, they are going to be quite pissed off at the fact. Worse still my day rate ends up at nearly 900 a day to be caught as an IR35 employee. Are government budgets ready for that??? I doubt it
3) If they are able to set a blanket your all caught by IR35 senario who do they think will work for them?
4) How long before someone successfully argues that their behaviour constitutes an attempt to employ workers without granting them full employment rights? It's the sort of thing that Strasbourg would love to shove up our governments arse...

Just don't think this has been thought through. I would expect the time limits to move up to 1 year fairly quickly...

[malvolio]

Is the proposal that it applies to

a) >220pd and >6mths
b) >220pd or >6mths

Different articles are quoting slightly different things.

If it's a), it would apply to the vast majority of any new public sector contractors, even those on short contracts. If it's b), then it means it's still possible to do quick, short bursts - which is generally what contracting is all about.

It's 220 and 6 months.

The £220 is an interesting example of how inept our politicians really are. Take the base pay scale salary for a Senior Civil Servant and divide by 260 days. Guess what that comes to... Clearly whichever of the Lib Dumb researchers who came up with that figure is utterly ignorant of basic economics let alone freelancing.

[escapeUK]

And you can wave bye-bye to the insurance next year, I reckon.

I'll take that bet. So the IR35 "enforcements" which are spectacularly unsuccessful are going to increase ten fold. Insurance was offered not because there was so few of them, but because the chances of being deemed inside were so low.

Personally I think they dont have the resources to increase something so unproductive ten fold, this is the government we are talking about so they may do, or it might just be a sound bite.

[Contreras]

And you can wave bye-bye to the insurance next year, I reckon.

I'll take that bet. So the IR35 "enforcements" which are spectacularly unsuccessful are going to increase ten fold. Insurance was offered not because there was so few of them, but because the chances of being deemed inside were so low.

Personally I think they dont have the resources to increase something so unproductive ten fold, this is the government we are talking about so they may do, or it might just be a sound bite.

If you believe what has been said then it won't require a "ten fold" increase in resources. Several new IR35 specialist teams have already been set up and the idea is to spam thousands of contractors with a standard letter as an information gathering exercise which can then be used for more efficient "targeting" of likely IR35 candidates.

[BolshieBastard]

Is the proposal that it applies to

a) >220pd and >6mths
b) >220pd or >6mths

Different articles are quoting slightly different things.

If it's a), it would apply to the vast majority of any new public sector contractors, even those on short contracts. If it's b), then it means it's still possible to do quick, short bursts - which is generally what contracting is all about.

It is any contractor 'earning' more than £220pd, after 6 months is expected to become perm or leave. However, knowing the civil service as I do, Departments will also say anyone renewing a contract beyond 6 months will need to convert to permie irrespective of what the daily rate is.

In any event, who in their right mind would work for less than £220pd!?

[Sysman]

It's 220 and 6 months.

The £220 is an interesting example of how inept our politicians really are. Take the base pay scale salary for a Senior Civil Servant and divide by 260 days. Guess what that comes to... Clearly whichever of the Lib Dumb researchers who came up with that figure is utterly ignorant of basic economics let alone freelancing.

For those who can't be bothered to work it out 260 = 52 * 5

I don't think I've ever had a contract where that was possible, what with bank holidays and Christmas / New Year shutdowns.

Not unless you were allowed overtime anyway.

[BolshieBastard]

We are just going to have to see where this stupid policy goes...

There are several points that are not clear.

1) What constitutes a Civil Servant. My site is very clear that I am Not an HMG employee, and as such not a civil servant and perfectly free to pay myself how I like.

The intention is very clear, anyone 'working' on a civil service contract will be deemed an HMG employee after 6 months where their daily rate is £220 or more.
I suspect most Departments will also deem one a civil servant if you extend a contract beyond 6 months and your rate is less than £220 a day.

2) What is Beaker and his chums going to do to make government departments speed up and get jobs done in 6 months? When all the departments realise that NO-ONE is renewing after six months, they are going to be quite pissed off at the fact. Worse still my day rate ends up at nearly 900 a day to be caught as an IR35 employee. Are government budgets ready for that??? I doubt it

They'll believe contractors will have no problem 'converting' to being civil servants, they really are that thick.

In reality, they'll find good quality contractors will not stay more than 6 months and will resort to more use of HP and the likes. Oh, and bob's.

3) If they are able to set a blanket your all caught by IR35 senario who do they think will work for them?

The likes of HP and bob's.

4) How long before someone successfully argues that their behaviour constitutes an attempt to employ workers without granting them full employment rights? It's the sort of thing that Strasbourg would love to shove up our governments arse...

No, once you reach the cut off point, ie 6 months, you become a permie civil servant with all the rights and privileges. So, you'll have all these without having to sue for them.

Just don't think this has been thought through. I would expect the time limits to move up to 1 year fairly quickly...

Very true, it is policy made on the hoof to address a small number of people who really were civil servants but were allowed to act as contractors. So, instead of rectifying the problem of the few, they changed it to catch every contractor working in Government Departments.

But, dont be surprised to see this creeping into any public sector organisation that uses contract resource.

[BolshieBastard]

For those who can't be bothered to work it out 260 = 52 * 5

I don't think I've ever had a contract where that was possible, what with bank holidays and Christmas / New Year shutdowns.

Not unless you were allowed overtime anyway.

Yes, but they are working on the premise civil servants are paid for a 5 day week, 52 weeks of the year. Civil servants are also allowed 6 weeks paid annual leave (after 1 year IIRC), 11 bank holidays and 'privilege' days ie maunday thursday, Queens Birthday and, if the Department allows flexi time, 1.5 or 2 days flexi leave in a 4 week period.

[Sysman]

Yes, but they are working on the premise civil servants are paid for a 5 day week, 52 weeks of the year. Civil servants are also allowed 6 weeks paid annual leave (after 1 year IIRC), 11 bank holidays and 'privilege' days ie maunday thursday, Queens Birthday and, if the Department allows flexi time, 1.5 or 2 days flexi leave in a 4 week period.

So actually that 260 should be 260 -30 -11 -2 = 217 before any flexi-time or sickness is taken into account.