BOOMED - but no rate increase!

[Wanderer]

Where on earth has this attitude of increase on extension come from? I've noticed it alot over the last few years. You're no more valuable now, than you were at the beginning of your contract (unless someone has shot everyone else with your skill set in the meantime), so why would anyone give you a raise?

I find it amusing that someone would think that you take a job on and there should never be a renegotiation of the terms.

You get your foot in the door of some place at a rate, prove your worth and demonstrate how you can add value, invariably you end up doing a lot more than the original job specification was for. So at renewal time you present your case to the client for a rate increase. The client doesn't have to accept but they have to weigh up how well the contractor has performed and add to that the cost and aggro of dealing with agents to recruit a new one and make their business decision based on that.

[northernladuk]

NL, I've had experience of running a retail operation and I can assure you, suppliers do put up their prices even when there is downward pressure somewhere in the chain. One supplier's price cut is another's price rise.

Interesting, I haven't seen this. A number of clients I worked at all had a blanket challenge to business to reduce suppliers costs by 10% year on year or there abouts. Sometimes this was a straight negotiation, other times scope is juggled but it had to be met. Maybe service supply is different to product supply so it is interesting to hear but not what I have seen in service supplier management recently. One thing that was never done however was to do it mid contract.

I have to disagree with you about mid term rate increases. Clients do it frequently. When working at Barcrap once and during renewal discussions, I'd been assured there was no rate cut pending for me. 4 weeks after signing the renewal, Barcrap told all contractors via the intranet, not face to face there was to be a 20% rate cut across the board with 4 weeks to take it or leave.

I understand this. I took the first 10% cut at Barclays a few years ago before they walked everyone off around xmas. Thing is, how pissed off and angry was everyone when the did it and what was the reputation of the client since it happened. Not good on either case. Just because they do something wrong it doesn't mean it is the way to act. I think I mentioned before, clients cutting across the board to meet shareholder expectation at the end of the financial years is a different case to someone being greedy and wan't more for no other reason than they expect it.

I told agent \ Barcrap I would talk about a rate reduction at next renewal. Barcrap wouldnt entertain it, the agent wouldnt push it as they said they didnt want to 'upset' Barcrap so, you'll forgive me for being a little jaudiced about your comments on this one, even if we normally agree.

I understand as I felt the same (but not as painful as yours!). I just don't (personally) think that the odd tulipty client managing their key suppliers badly is a reason for me to go all mercenary and unprofessional on my clients. Just the way I like to work. Maybe after the BarCap experience I will come back and delete this LOL

i personally wouldnt ask for a mid term increase unless ALL factors were very heavily weighted in my favour. Maybe I should have done in my 3.5 year stint at one client, maybe next time I will.

See, we do agree on something at least

EDIT : Actually reading back it looks like I anti contractor, just interesting discussion on business I think. Sorry for rambling.

[northernladuk]

On the subject of rate negotiation, tbh I've never been on one of these gigs that seem to exist where you get extended indefinitely. The longest contracts I've been on have lasted about nine months tops, and there were at most two short extensions from the initial contract period before the work I was there to do was finished and I moved on to my next client/project. I'd never try to renegotiate my rate on those sort of gigs mid-gig. I personally wouldn't be interested in working on a contract basis for any one client for any longer than that (it would feel too much like a permie role for me, but with none of the debateable permie benefits), but I guess if I was hypothetically to do a two to three year stint with a single client, that'd be a long enough period to take into consideration the added value that a seasoned, tried-and-tested worker provides, versus the risk inherent in taking on any unknown entity. Asking for a reasonable rate increase at a certain point within that kind of long contract would be reasonable enough in my book.

Totally this +1.

[The Agents View]

I find it amusing that someone would think that you take a job on and there should never be a renegotiation of the terms.

You get your foot in the door of some place at a rate, prove your worth and demonstrate how you can add value, invariably you end up doing a lot more than the original job specification was for. So at renewal time you present your case to the client for a rate increase. The client doesn't have to accept but they have to weigh up how well the contractor has performed and add to that the cost and aggro of dealing with agents to recruit a new one and make their business decision based on that.

What utter tosh. A true contractor, goes in, completes a project, and gets out. They do not need to "Prove their worth" - they just need to deliver what is in the ASSIGNMENT SCHEDULE. They DO NOT have a job description - as to have a job description, is to be a permanent member of staff.

If BT turned around to me and said that because I've been with them for 12 months, they wanted to raise my bill, which currently sits at £300 a month roughly, to £400, because I know them, and therefore wouldn't dare switch to another supplier - I'd do the same as I'd do to you if you assumed a rate rise at renewal - I'd sack them off and find someone who deserves the contract.

[cojak]

I must admit that I don't ask for rate raises at renewal, I increase rates for new clients/new contracts.

That doesn't mean I haven't received them, however. Sometimes a client will hunt around for spare change once I politely tell them that I'm not extending. That's a business decision on their side, I'm a contractor and that's what I do.

[psychocandy]

There are two types of people, them that have to talk about it, and them that have it...

Will I get banned if I post a pic of my 'pods'?

[psychocandy]

In these tough economic times, it's to be expected.

And as it always is, it's a buisness decision for both them and you to make.

That being said, they are taking a risk, you might decide to leave and take buisness knowledge with you. On the other hand what you do might well be 10 a penny and they know they could replace you easily.

LOL. This is true. I just think they are making assumptions.

Not 10 a penny what I do. Not saying its the greatest skill in the world but its fairly specific. And its in Wales. NO-ONE is going to travel here from, say, London for the rate and role they are offering.

Hope of getting a replacement. They have two - Bob Hope and No Hope.

[psychocandy]

Where on earth has this attitude of increase on extension come from? I've noticed it alot over the last few years. You're no more valuable now, than you were at the beginning of your contract (unless someone has shot everyone else with your skill set in the meantime), so why would anyone give you a raise?

There are tonnes of benched people out there, chomping at the bit to get into these contracts - it's a buyers market - so unless some kind of drought of contractors in your specific skills area has arisen, I would suggest that in this economic climate, you should be grateful to be offered more work instead of being benched - not getting hacked off because a client won't pay you more for a job you've been happy to do at this rate for the previous 3, 6, 12 months.

Inflation means rate 1 year ago in real terms is now worth less for a start.

Also, in real terms my rate has gone down by over 10% because of exchange rate but we wont get into that.

Would you get a builder to build you a wall, and then expect to call him 10 years later and do it for the same price? Unlikely....

[psychocandy]

I agree to an extent but all businesses increase their prices from time to time and not always annually ie every 90 days, 6 months or as soon as their costs go up.

I once worked for the same client for nearly 3.5 years and for 3 of those years never asked for an increase. Why? Because I knew the client was rate conscious (sp?), I liked the gaff and the other T&C's were good.

I like my client. However, they do take the piss constantly and expect little extras for free. I feel that sometimes they arent willing to look at my angle otherwise. I've got them out of the tulipe so many times recently I feel its a little short-sighted to even refuse to get into a dialogue with me (or my agent) about the rate.

They just assume I'm going to renew at the same old rate. Also, they can never even be arsed to do it until 2 days before normally. Record 7 days in advance this time. They just ASSUME I'm going to stay.

[northernladuk]

Will I get banned if I post a pic of my 'pods'?

No go for it, here is one of mine...