Your policy on overtime?

**jonson** · 4 May 2012, 21:01

continued

so today I got the agency to amend the contract between me and the client (not the agency contract), by adding day rate £xxx work hours: 40 hours a week and then overtime: calculated at the rate above, the day rate.

They didn't seem to make a huge fuss about it, and it means I will get paid for each hour. However I don't want the client to flip and refuse payment when they see the invoice amount is quite large (as I will undoubtedly do loads of extra hours)

So can I invoice weekly for the day rate, and then send all the extra hours as a separate invoice at the end of the month? That way I will lower risk of disputes and have something to fall back on

**BolshieBastard** · 5 May 2012, 09:01

My take on it 'overtime' is what permie's do. While I agree some client's take the piss, to me the best action is to agree a higher daily rate and acknowledge you work a couple of hours free for some weeks but wont be working 12+ hours days every day.

The problem with specifying work periods and overtime periods in a contract is, these are pointers to D&C by the client even if you insisted them in the contract.

It would be interesting to see what HMRC's questionnaire for new IR35 makes of this perenial situation.

**northernladuk** · 5 May 2012, 09:54

Do a search for overtime. It has been done a 100 times in some very long and heated threads.

Do you get your contracts checked by QDOS? Might want to get this one checked again

**nomadd** · 5 May 2012, 11:23

Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

Do a search for overtime. It has been done a 100 times in some very long and heated threads.

Do you get your contracts checked by QDOS? Might want to get this one checked again

This^

(Ps. My own policy is that all overtime is chargeable beyond 40 hours per week. But I make that abundantly clear at the interview, so generally it's never been a problem. But clearly if you are working for a nice client, you are going to show some flexibility.)

**jonson** · 5 May 2012, 12:28

@northern I looked at a few threads, this is more of a specific question on invoicing overtime as a supplement at the end of the contract

Originally posted by nomadd View Post

This^

(Ps. My own policy is that all overtime is chargeable beyond 40 hours per week. But I make that abundantly clear at the interview, so generally it's never been a problem. But clearly if you are working for a nice client, you are going to show some flexibility.)

@nomadd no not a nice client, I know they are complete c*nts from another friend and will be billing every hour....yes this is pretty much what I am saying now, and will remind them again of this.

The thing with the day rate is, often it has not been a problem until recently. I did work for a small company, and actually gave them a lower day rate because the contract was quite long. In return they basically worked me 9-9pm every single day, and then some weekends too, at normal rate. The guy was really taking the mick, of course he would cruise in at noon and leave at 6pm...

So basically either switching to an hourly rate or this. To be honest I have been offered the choice of hourly a few times but chose day rate instead...

Anyway my main question is, if the overtime clause is clearly in the signed contract, it is discussed prior in email etc, surely it is legally enforceable? What kinds of clauses could be a possible risk to this? what should I be looking for in the agency contract which may override this...oh and I refused to opt-Out, even though they suggested it was a great idea

**Wanderer** · 5 May 2012, 13:43

Originally posted by jonson View Post

I did work for a small company, and actually gave them a lower day rate because the contract was quite long. In return they basically worked me 9-9pm every single day, and then some weekends too, at normal rate.

With due respect, the problem is not the client, the problem is YOU.

Did they hold a gun to your head to make you work 9am-9pm and weekends too? Just say NO. When it gets to 5pm, go home. If the client starts going on about work needing to be done, cheerfully tell them that you have things to do this evening but you will be straight back in at 9am tomorrow to crack on with it. If there aren't enough hours in the day to do all the work then that's the client's problem, not yours.

Originally posted by jonson View Post

Anyway my main question is, if the overtime clause is clearly in the signed contract, it is discussed prior in email etc, surely it is legally enforceable? What kinds of clauses could be a possible risk to this? what should I be looking for in the agency contract which may override this...oh and I refused to opt-Out, even though they suggested it was a great idea

Did the client explicitly agree to have you to work the extra hours? You really need to have this or else they will just deny that they ever asked you to and that you did it on your own initiative so they shouldn't have to pay. You will probably get your invoice queried so have all your evidence in a safe place. Also make sure you have emails to the client confirming that you were working extra hours to get the job done and preferably with their agreement for you to work the hours.

Make sure you keep some secondary proof of hours worked. If you are working late then save up your emails and bang one off every hour or so and another one just before you leave site to prove that you were there and working during the day.

Once the first invoice has gone through the client will either stump up for the extra payments or they will knock the overtime on the head. Either way, you're a winner and I think that's the best way of doing business. I don't buy into the "overtime is for permies" argument, I think it's perfectly reasonable to engage a worker on an hourly rate and pay them per hour worked.

**SueEllen** · 5 May 2012, 19:52

Originally posted by Wanderer View Post

With due respect, the problem is not the client, the problem is YOU.

WHS

There is no one forcing you to work longer than agreed in the contract.

If you don't want to work as long as the client hints then tell them that you contract states your working hours are x to y or simply ignore their hints.

There are some of us who have more than one client sometimes so we refuse to work longer than is acceptable to us for any of our clients.

Personally the clients I've had who hint about doing extra unacceptable hours I ignore, mainly because they are the inflexible clients who I also don't learn any new skills/experience from.

**psychocandy** · 8 May 2012, 11:06

The old day rate thing again. Causes nothing but problems....

I can see the idea behind just refusing and walking out. All well and good until they get some other contractor in who will work these hours.

I get this grief at the moment. Dont mind working a 'bit' extra but they do push it sometimes.

Current client is 20 mins from home, so I dont mind 30 mins extra max per day. Still better off than if I had to travel 1 hour to client after all.

**Spacecadet** · 8 May 2012, 11:30

you just need to be firm and if necessary bull tulip them that you have something to go to (don't say home cause they'll just get jealous)

But really it comes down to how desperate you are for the work. Personally I wouldn't want an extension with a company who insisted that overtime was the norm.

Weekend work I am especially loathe to do given that I usually work away during the week.

Your policy on overtime?