Verbal vs written contract

**northernladuk** · 24 January 2012, 16:18

You could try tell him you accept but 'Subject to contract review'. Tell him you will not give an absolute yes until you have seen a hard copy and have it reviewed. That way if you don't like it in a week or so you tell him it failed review and you don't want the gig. The clock never started so are not techincially giving backword.

No one should start a contract without a review so it is a totally plausible excuse, he should know that. He won't be happy but he should understand.

Problem is if you get it you have no time to get it reviewed lol....

Giving backword on verbal contracts isn't the end of the world, hopefully option number 2 should still be around but it isn't the best thing to do or to make a habit of, but that is purely my personal opinion.

**TheFaQQer** · 24 January 2012, 16:24

Originally posted by Harmonic View Post

I've just got my first contract offer but it means four hours in the car every day and they want a verbal decision by first thing tomorrow. I've got a couple of other interviews lined up which are for a better rate with less travel.
The contract for the gig I've been offered needs a bit of work - biggest sticking point is that the substitution clause is dependent on signing the Opt-out.
Am I OK giving a verbal yes, dependent on sorting the contract and still continuing with interviews for the other gigs? Or is going back on a verbal contract a big no-no?

You don't have a verbal contract. If you say yes, then you have a verbal acceptance of a written contract. There's a big difference between the two.

If you are going to have to have the contract modified, then tell the agent that you are having it reviewed. If they push you to accept, then you can tell them that you accept the role, subject to signing an agreed contract. They will normally only hear "I accept the role" and nothing else, though.

In the meantime, then continue looking for other roles. The first one to get an agreed contract wins.

**northernladuk** · 24 January 2012, 16:29

When you say lined up how long are we talking here. A week or two or more?

**malvolio** · 24 January 2012, 16:31

And point out that if they want to make anything dependent on you opting out, they're breaking the law.

**Harmonic** · 24 January 2012, 16:39

It's a three month contract. I'm fairly chuffed at getting the offer as I get made redundant from my permie job on Friday and this is due to start Monday. We've got decent savings, plus the tax free month in lieu of notice payment so I'm not desperate but at the same time it makes sense to start a new contract as fast as I can.

**TheFaQQer** · 24 January 2012, 16:48

Originally posted by malvolio View Post

And point out that if they want to make anything dependent on you opting out, they're breaking the law.

They aren't breaking the law.

They are enforcing an agency policy which dictates that potential suppliers who do not opt out of the agency regulations will be given a different contract. There is nothing illegal in doing this.

If you are inside the regulations, then you can invoice at any stage for the work and expect to get paid. Many agencies will have a clause with the client that says that they must invoice within a certain time period or risk not getting paid (e.g. must invoice within six weeks of the work). That's an additional risk that they take by working with someone who is opted into the regulations, so it is perfectly logical to offer a contract which differs.

**SueEllen** · 24 January 2012, 18:09

Originally posted by TheFaQQer View Post

They aren't breaking the law.

It depends on how the agent conducts themselves.

If they drop the contractor because they refuse to opt-out then they are breaking the law.

If they give a different contract they aren't.

If they put "opted-out" all over the contract and didn't manage to get a separate opt-out before the contractor was introduced to the client they are.

Also some of the better agencies I've dealt with don't give a separate contract they just have a statement making it clear that the following clauses only apply if you are "opted-out".

**malvolio** · 24 January 2012, 18:57

Originally posted by TheFaQQer View Post

They aren't breaking the law.

Yes they are -

The OP said "biggest sticking point is that the substitution clause is dependent on signing the Opt-out.
".

Which bit of the Agency Regs impacts your ability to send a substitute?

**Harmonic** · 24 January 2012, 19:06

So far they've sent me a template of "the standard contract for everyone who works with this client". It has "Regulations Status - Opt Out" on the first page and also "Specified Consultant" but the other bit the concerns me is the section covering Substitution is prefaced with "If the regulations do not apply...". It looks to me like they are trying to force me to choose between opting out or being in IR35.

Verbal vs written contract