Contractors - Your Turn!!

[DodgyAgent]

So you are not on the PSL? - is that why you also don't like to name the client? Just interested in if these two are both linked

He is either not on the PSL or the PSL is not properly enfoced or the client does not have a PSL. What our friend is talking about is "trading" or in other words "body shopping". They start with a few CVs and a database of clients. They ring the client up saying that they have a very good **** available is the client interested in seeing the CV? if the client says no then the agent asks:

1 if he is looking for anyone else now or in the future
2 Is there anyone else looking in the company.

It is a numbers game and eventually the agent will pick up a requirement. This is the opportunity he/she longs for. It is all action stations to find a candidate. Of course the client and the agency hardly know each other at all so the chances are that the client will have given the job to someone else or would not be averse to giving it to other agents who may happen to call in the future. In order to protect his position the agent pretends that he and the client are old buddies, refuses to let on who the client is etc etc.

An agent worth his salt will start off with this technique. The agent if he is really good will have already gleaned information about the client from the internet, other contractors or contacts prior to making the cold call. Your references help these people enormously.

Finding good recruitment agents who will do this work day in, day out is very very hard. Most agents will stop and live off their existing contacts having attained the earnings they need. The very good ones will not stop networking.

The PSL has largely put a stop to this and I am not sure it is an entirely good thing unless it is very carefully run and suppliers are tightly measured. If a PSL is in place to make life easier for HR/resourcing then it should not exist. If it is in place to make life easier for hiring managers (not having to take continuous calls from agents) or to aggregate demand accross a large company to get discounts then it is probably a good thing.

One more thing any good recruitment consultant worth his salt would not be paying regular visits to this board

[privateeye]

The PSL has largely put a stop to this and I am not sure it is an entirely good thing unless it is very carefully run and suppliers are tightly measured. If a PSL is in place to make life easier for HR/resourcing then it should not exist. If it is in place to make life easier for hiring managers (not having to take continuous calls from agents) or to aggregate demand accross a large company to get discounts then it is probably a good thing.

One more thing any good recruitment consultant worth his salt would not be paying regular visits to this board

A couple of places I've worked the PSL was set up to stop departmental heads accepting incentives from recruiters etc. Mostly I know from being involved in the recruiting side wherever I am is to stop the constant cold calling. I agree that clients should monitor their PSL's - quite simply all they have to do is ask a candidate about the recruiter who got them in.

[IT contract agent]

He is either not on the PSL or the PSL is not properly enfoced or the client does not have a PSL. What our friend is talking about is "trading" or in other words "body shopping". They start with a few CVs and a database of clients. They ring the client up saying that they have a very good **** available is the client interested in seeing the CV? if the client says no then the agent asks:

1 if he is looking for anyone else now or in the future
2 Is there anyone else looking in the company.

It is a numbers game and eventually the agent will pick up a requirement. This is the opportunity he/she longs for. It is all action stations to find a candidate. Of course the client and the agency hardly know each other at all so the chances are that the client will have given the job to someone else or would not be averse to giving it to other agents who may happen to call in the future. In order to protect his position the agent pretends that he and the client are old buddies, refuses to let on who the client is etc etc.

An agent worth his salt will start off with this technique. The agent if he is really good will have already gleaned information about the client from the internet, other contractors or contacts prior to making the cold call. Your references help these people enormously.

Finding good recruitment agents who will do this work day in, day out is very very hard. Most agents will stop and live off their existing contacts having attained the earnings they need. The very good ones will not stop networking.

The PSL has largely put a stop to this and I am not sure it is an entirely good thing unless it is very carefully run and suppliers are tightly measured. If a PSL is in place to make life easier for HR/resourcing then it should not exist. If it is in place to make life easier for hiring managers (not having to take continuous calls from agents) or to aggregate demand accross a large company to get discounts then it is probably a good thing.

One more thing any good recruitment consultant worth his salt would not be paying regular visits to this board

I agree with most of that -

My day is a mix of cold calls and candidate calls. Cold calling is something that I think shouldn't die and you're right in saying that a good recruiter should do this - an excellent recruiter will do this and not sit back on their existing clients.

Re the PSL issue - I've said before I rarely work on our PSL accounts. New business is the way to earn money. If you're good enough to win new business then there's no need to work PSLs - unless you want an easy life. I can't see a real need for a contract candidate to know the name of the client.

Re me on here - its a Friday, I've had a decent week this week - and I'm a mix of the person you described. I am constantly cold calling but I've done years working 15 hour days and weekends at S3 so have a decent client base also - I cut myself slack now

[privateeye]

I can't see a real need for a contract candidate to know the name of the client.

We might not want to work there and can save everyone a lot of time by knowing this info in advance. There is also the problem that we cannot prevent our CV's being duplicated if another agent wants to put us forward. This is a real problem especially in London where so many of our clients are in a square mile so simply saying an investment bank in London doesn't help. As a manager I get involved in the recruitment side so do know for a fact that duplication of CV's can hinder your chances.

The name of the client quite often can give us a more detailed description of the work culture and technologies used - more so than the job description a recruiter is supplied with as often HR don't have the latest version.

Any way its Friday I'm going home - have a great weekend.

[Denny]

If you want a job how about you make an effort to get one..

We don't want a job - that's for potential permies. What we're actually doing is flagging up our availability as owner managed businesses so that you can do your job of introducing us to your client. After all, that's what EBs are for: to source contractors for their clients, not find contractors work. That's what agents do and you're not an agent.

That's why you would only get a copy of my sales brochure which is in pdf and copywrited - and has no contact details on that would give you a ready made excuse not to use it to forward on.

If you want us to act like businesses, then try treating us like business owners not jobseekers.

[cojak]

Oh and I'd like a contract that states clearly that I'm outside of IR35 (yes, really, I am).

I'm going to send yours to B&C and will reject it if it isn't.

You can find out more from the PCG website.

HTH